Goulds - 3 1/1.5 day old tossed chicks

[vellad]

So the pair i have had 3 chicks and tossed them out. Yesterday I found one tossed out, put it back in but was tossed out again so I am not going to put them in again.

Now the hard stuff starts. I am trying to hand rear them myself - they are between 1 day and 1.5 days old and this will be my first time.

I put them in a very small open container and I then put the small container into a much bigger container. In the big container i also put a bowl of water (humidity) and on top of the container I put a reptile heat lamp connected to a thermostat that should keep the temp inside the big container at around 33 degrees celsius (91.4 F).

I bought electrolyte and mixed it with formula - it was very watery.

To feed them I am using a 1cc syringe with a very soft silicon tube at the end.

One of the chicks has a full crop and begs. Another one does not have a full crop but I can see air bubbles in the crop. Tried to 'burp' him but he is not begging and the air is still there. The third one i doubt he will make it. Crop almost empty and he just stays foetal position and does not beg at all.

I think the last 2 won't make it.

How worried should I be re the air in the crop? And any ideas on how i can get the third one to beg?

I see that this will be super difficult for me and I doubt any of them will make it but will try my best.

I will need to take them to the office with me as well now. Here it's bloody hot and now i can't switch on the A/C in my office so won't be an enjoyable week

[finchmix22]

Wow, that is too bad the parents tossed, yet it is common with goudlians. Do you have any other finches sitting on eggs? If so, you could put the babies in their nest and see if they'll feed them or at least incubate (keep them warm) them. I'm not sure about getting air out of the crop. I think the temperature of the formula is key to easier digestion. I check the temp by putting a small drop on my wrist, just like a baby bottle. Also, The other two may not be doing as well because the temperature is still cold. I'd turn it up to 94 F. At least for the first 5-7 days, then you can turn it down to 91F. They will be more energetic when they are not cold. Good Luck and keep us posted.

[debbie276]

Here's an article from The Finch Information Center pages which would be a good place to start.
http://www.finchinfo.com/breeding/handfeeding.php

Tells proper temps for brooders...Newly hatched 92-94°F and so on

Also how to prepare the formula and thickness for what age chick...
"Once the formula and the hot water have been mixed thoroughly, allow the mixture to cool to 101-104°F (38.3-40°C) before feeding the chicks. Feeding formula at this temperature allows the chicks to digest it properly."

Handfeeding is not an easy task so best of luck

[MiaCarter]

I left a note on your other thread.

Sorry to hear about this!

Unfortunately, there's no real way to get them to beg if they don't want to. It's usually all downhill from there in my experience.
As Deborah mentioned, I'd ensure they're warm enough.
And they will instinctively beg when stimulated. So if you let him be for a little while, then give him a little bump with your finger, he may beg for a moment -- just enough time to work with him. I've been able to get a super dehydrated baby to beg this way and it was enough to save him.

I wouldn't worry too much about the air in the crop, as it's relatively common with handfeeding and even from parent feeding.
I've never had much success with burping (especially in these tiny guys -- big potential for crushing injuries, so I don't even try when they're this small.) But it will work its way out naturally.

Also remember that clear fluids such as rehydration solution can look like a bubble when combined with food.

The most concern over the air in the crop is that it can result from a yeast infection or due to degrading food (this is why you must let the crop empty fully once every 18-24 hours, so there's no old food that starts to rot.)
If you're worried about a yeast infection, I would give a feeding of baby apple sauce.
Or, if you happen to have Nystatin powder (antifungal), you can add it to the formula. It is safe for babies.

If you have avian probiotics powder, that's helpful too. Naturally, they would get the healthy bacteria from their parents. But handfeds don't get that and it leaves them more vulnerable.

[vellad]

Wow, that is too bad the parents tossed, yet it is common with goudlians. Do you have any other finches sitting on eggs? If so, you could put the babies in their nest and see if they'll feed them or at least incubate (keep them warm) them. I'm not sure about getting air out of the crop. I think the temperature of the formula is key to easier digestion. I check the temp by putting a small drop on my wrist, just like a baby bottle. Also, The other two may not be doing as well because the temperature is still cold. I'd turn it up to 94 F. At least for the first 5-7 days, then you can turn it down to 91F. They will be more energetic when they are not cold. Good Luck and keep us posted.

I don't have any other finches and I do not keep societies etc as i only do parent-reared - so it can be tougher.

Temp is already 94 F.

Thanks!

[vellad]

Here they are.

The one on the left begs a lot - i think he should already be full but continues to beg.

[MiaCarter]

Aw, little cutie pies.

The one in the middle looks unwell. I've noticed they tend to do a fetal position when they're sick or cold.

The one on the right still has a fair amount of unabsorbed yolk sac, it seems. (The yellow spot in his belly.) So that may help sustain him a bit, reducing his food intake needs a tad.

Though I know Goulds tend to eat a bit sooner than other species like societies or zebras, which may not eat at all until the second day, living off the yolk sac in the beginning. (Some are born with an immature digestive system, which is why many breeders only do clear liquids in the first 24 hours.)

I'd just keep them warm and fed and hopefully they'll do well!
I'd be sure to change out the paper towel they're on too, as they can get infections quite easily when they're this tiny.

[debbie276]

Crops look VERY full! Be sure they are pooping and that you don't over fill the crops as that could cause aspiration.
Looking good so far, good luck

[vellad]

Crops look VERY full! Be sure they are pooping and that you don't over fill the crops as that could cause aspiration.
Looking good so far, good luck

Hey Debb .. not sure if normal but do you also think that the one ont he left and the middle have a full crop? Because if yes than the one on the left is super very full.

[debbie276]

At a day and a half of age, yes, VERY full.

[vellad]

At a day and a half of age, yes, VERY full.

Thanks Debbie - you have me some hope.

[vellad]

1 out.

[finchmix22]

One out? Do you mean you lost one or another one was tossed?

[lovezebs]

vellad
Good luck with your tiny tots. I hope that at least one, hopefully two will pull through. They are oh so tiny.

[vellad]

One out? Do you mean you lost one or another one was tossed?

I lost one yesterday eve.

Woke up this morning and 2 of them are still alive. Woke up to feed them every 3 hours.

One is noticeably larger and begs continuously. My concern with this one is that his crop is always full - even when i skipped the 3 hour feed for him.

The other one is very weak. He takes 2 drops each feed and that's it but at least when i feed him I can see the food in the crop. He doesn't have a lot of energy but then again is smaller then the other one.

Will see - fingers crossed.