The Mystery Nest

[MiaCarter]

So, I've read lots of threads where people didn't know how many eggs or chicks they had.
And I've always sort of thought to myself, "Well that's odd. Why not just wait until they leave the nest and take a quick peek?"

But now, I get it! LOL

It appears that my new gouldians, Clara and Avery are doing this baby thing (much to my surprise.)

I've been looking for an opportunity to peek, as I'm super curious as to how many eggs they've got. But no dice! These two are the tightest sitters ever!

Usually, with the others, I pop in some fresh egg food and cucumbers and everyone comes running out of the nests to munch. And if one stays in the nest, you just hang out for a couple minutes until they do a changing of the guard and peek then.

But not these two! They're stoic!
They're like, "No way, human. That trick isn't going to work!"

Alas, the curiosity is killing me! LOL
But they're first time parents and still pretty flighty, so I don't dare mess with them.

So I guess I'll just need to wait and see!
I'm not too optimistic as they're first time parents and Gouldians are notoriously tough in this regard, but if their behavior so far is any indicators, we may just have a chance at getting a surviving chick or two!

But indeed, I finally get it! Some just don't leave the nest!
Never seen so much co-sitting either. They're both in there 75-80% of the time.

[Toddmin]

I know what you mean. I've had one pair where I'd peek in the nest box and they would stare at me defiantly, not budging. I try not to bother them, to prevent risking them tossing or abandoning the eggs.

[lovezebs]

MiaCarter
I'm just leaving well enough alone. Whatever will be, will be. They deserve some privacy too.
A good lesson in patience.

[MiaCarter]

lovezebs -- I know it! It is a good lesson in a patience! -- Something I'm terrible with!

I forgot that you had your goulds sitting too!
When are your guys due?
Mine should hatch around the 14th.

I'd love, love, love to candle to see if there are any fertile. I hate to see them investing all that effort on duds!
But I don't dare touch or mess with them! So it will just be a surprise.

I've been utterly spoiled by Molly Sue and Ivy, who've let me be waaay more involved than is normal.

[lovezebs]

MiaCarter
Hi Mia.
Goodluck with your two.
Still have no idea what mine are doing in there with the Socies. They all go in there and occasionally chase each other out, so who knows. Have no idea if they have eggs in there, or if they're sitting on Socie eggs as practice. Not a clue, but we shall see. Maybe I'll get Social Gouldians or Multi coloured Societies. LoL!

[KarenB]

MiaCarter, Lol, now you know how the other half lives. Patience!

[MiaCarter]

KarenB -- LOL I know it!
This is definitely a lesson in restraint and patience!!

The bummer is that I'd started working with them.
They were aviary bred and thus, they were super super flighty.
My goal wasn't to hand tame them exactly; more to just get them more comfortable with the big scary human creature.

They were making such tremendous progress.
And now, they're sitting and I'm afraid to bother them, so 3+ weeks worth of effort is out the window, which is a bummer.
Consistency is super important when working with any animal. Literally missing one day can cause a huge backslide. So I have no doubt that all those efforts will be lost which just plain stinks.
C'est la vie.
There's no rush, I guess. We'll just try again when they're more "available."

[afinch]

Or better yet, you can start with the babies which should be a lot more malleable to habituation. Good luck and congrats!

[MiaCarter]

afinch -- Indeed, that's what I was thinking.

The only problem is I'd be frightened to interfere with babies prior to weaning for fear they'd abandon as they're first time parents.
And by the time they wean, they're usually quite flighty and wild, esp. if the parents are flighty.
But that's okay. I did it once, I can do it again.

It's funny how they always seem to breed when you didn't have breeding intentions and then when you want them to breed, you can't get them to do it to save your life! LOL

And hopefully the taming process will go a bit quicker once we resume. That's usually the case. I don't need them to be hand tamed; just more comfortable with me so life is less stressful.
They also tend to stay in-cage during free fly if I'm in the room, so I think working with them will make them more comfy.
It takes a lot of work, but the tamer finches always seem happier when they're comfy around humans. It's like it gives them a new enjoyable facet to their life.

[MiaCarter]

Muah ha!
Finally got a peek!!

We've got five eggs.
What a great number!

I can tell that 2 are developing. The other three still look clear, but it's still early in the game and there are 2 that aren't at 5 days yet.
I didn't candle; just judged by the color.

[finchmix22]

Congratulations!
BTW, what are you dong to help tame the goulds? I am curious because I'd love to do that with some of my more flighty finches.

[MiaCarter]

finchmix22 -- Great question!

Taming is really a process. The most important thing is to let them guide you as you progress. You let the birds tell you how fast you'll progress.

First, I just start by sitting beside their cage. I'll usually just read a book or work on the laptop. Something passive, with little movement. This just lets them get used to having you nearby at close proximity.
This is super important for many caged birds, where most of their human interactions are frightening and somewhat invasive (e.g. changing the food and cleaning the cage.)

I know they're good when they act the same when I'm beside the cage. vs. far away. Super relaxed and just laid back.

Then, I'll start getting them comfortable with a more close-range presence in their territory. This involves putting an arm inside the cage.
I'll put a small fleece blanket over the bottom of the cage doorway/port to make it more comfortable.
If you had an aviary, I'd sit inside the aviary.
Stillness is super important.

Once they start coming close to investigate or landing on me, I'll raise the stakes with a treat.
Millet is the easiest and cleanest, though I've also used other things, like cucumber chunks.
The key is to become their only source of the treat when you're working with them. So they only get millet when they're interacting with you.
This gives them a greater motivation to overcome that instinctual fear.
For some birds, the curiosity is enough to overcome that fear. But others need the food to get the motivation to confront those fears.

Once they're comfortable with taking treats from me and they'll instantly approach when I put an arm in the cage, they're ready to start working with movement and touching.
Up until now, you've been quite still and you don't touch them; you let them touch you.
But now, you start introducing small movements while they're eating. And you can start touching them while they're eating (otherwise, it's too frightening if they're focused on you and not eating.)

Gradually, they become comfortable with being touched, which gradually evolves into handling and holding. Some will enjoy being handled and petted; others really just tolerate it and only if there's food involved. For the latter group, I won't go any further; I just maintain the status quo to allow for easier care. For those who find the human interaction inherently rewarding, I'll keep working with them more intensively.

Once they're good inside the cage, you can start doing all this outside the cage.
It's harder in an aviary, because it's much easier for them to just avoid you. But certainly possible to tame in an aviary setting.
In an aviary setting, you'll generally only really work with the birds who are curious (and it's those curious birds who tend to also enjoy human interaction). The shyer ones generally just stay away.

If your goal is to make them less flighty, simply sitting alongside the cage (or inside the aviary) would do the trick. It goes a long way toward making them feel more comfortable and less flighty.
If you were only going to do that, I would offer a favorite treat like millet or cucumbers or whatever they really love right when you sit down. That will relax them and they'll come to associate your presence with a good experience.

Oh, and also, if you have a tamed bird, let them see you interacting with that bird.
It's best if it's a similar species, but even interactions with a hookbill can work. (With the same species, the body language is more familiar to them, so it's easier for them to see that that bird is relaxed and happy.) I've found that if I do that while sitting alongside their cage in that first taming phase, it makes the process easier and faster. Most will watch with rapt attention. Birds are an animal that do well with a see-and-learn approach. So if they see another doing something, it makes the curious birds more apt to do the same.

[finchmix22]

Thanks for the tips! I'll try some of those ideas and see what happens.

[finchmix22]

MiaCarter
I thinks my GS juvies are still somewhat tame. They always watch me with extreme curiousity and come close to the cage bars. Maybe I can start with them to show my Forbes and PF's I'm not so scary. LOL

[MiaCarter]

finchmix22 -- Yes! The juvies are always easier than the adults.
(Though some of the older adults seem to tame naturally. I don't ever remember taming Molly Sue; it just happened over the years. I think he just figured out I'm not so bad!)

The curious birds --- like those who venture close to the cage bars --- are always the easiest.

You can experiment with different sounds too.
I make this soft, high pitched whistling sound by putting my front teeth against the inside of my bottom lip, then gently suck in air. That particular sound really resonates with many of the finches. I have a bunch who will come right up to the bars to check me out whenever I make that sound!
And if they're out in free fly, they'll land super close and tilt their head at me! Little tricks like that work nicely.

The main trick is to be consistent. Work with them daily, even if it's just for a few minutes.
Let me know how you make out!