classroom pets

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:19 am

Shame on me for even asking this..... but here goes......

I have a pair of shaftails in my classroom. I took them because the cock suddenly after having a clutch decided he did not like the hen anymore and formed a bond with my chocolate society. He chased that poor hen all over the aviary. So I removed him along with one of the babies which I thought was another cock.

It has been laying eggs.

So..... It is certainly not a cock.

They are very bonded and I am "considering" letting them have a clutch in the spring. I would love for my students to have the experience of watching them raise babies. They have an isolated place in the room and are doing great. They seem to love it. They sing when the music comes on ..etc...

Do you all think this would be terrible for me to do? It is just a thought.....

Kiko · Post by **Kiko** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:15 am

To be really negative : You would be teaching the kids that it is ok to breed some pets just for the fun of it. Breeding a father to a daughter (not sure you'd tell them that, but, you know), and not breeding to improve the breed.
I don't think you should breed a father to daughter at all, if thats what I am reading correctly from your post.

I am really sensitive to the issues of puppymills and backyard breeders who breed dogs to make a buck and nothing else. So you're hitting a nerve for me here.

If you could make a lesson out of it as well. Say that you have new homes lined up for the babies already (as a responsible breeder should),
that you chose the male and female because they are close-to-perfect specimens of their type and very healthy..... you get my drift......

Ok I will climb off the soapbox now and let others put their opinions in!

(you did say shame on you for even asking

)

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:16 am

Do you have another male baby you could replace the female baby with? Then you'd get no eggs/babies but the kids could still enjoy the songs and antics of the birds in the corner. Either that or get a proper m/f unrelated (or at least not as closely related) pair of the same type of finch would be another possible suggestion.

gomer · Post by **gomer** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:27 pm

You have already taken them to school.They have eggs nest?The kids have seen them.I think I would leave them now if they don't know they are related.And would not tell them they are.As in some circumstances there is nothing wrong with line breeding.But the kids would not understand that.I think the birds will do more good with the kids than damage leaving them together.
If the current nest fails then perhaps swap one.And have another go.
Sorry Kiko but one reason I keep breed birds is because I enjoy it,for the fun.And yes you should be trying to improve the breed.And there is no need to find homes here for birds,before you know if and how many you are going to breed.As there are none being dumped in animal shelters here. just cats and dogs.It may be different there.

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:43 pm

Well, I knew I was taking a chance here of hitting a few nerves.....

First of all I would have never considered this if I had not read the other post on in-breeding. After reading it, I took a different view on a few things.

These birds have been in my classroom all year. They are comfortable there and the students are comfortable with them. They do not know they are father and daughter.

Kiko, I think you over-reacted a little bit to my post. There is no one on this forum that loves and takes care of their birds or any other pet more than I do. I certainly would not be teaching my students that it is okay to breed just for the fun of it. We had a pair of zebras last year and they had three babies and I adopted them out to wonderful homes. The students still have them.

And we all had a wonderful time learning how the birds cared for their babies. IF anything I am teaching my students to be responsible pet owners. As I am.

Liz,
I only have one ot her shaftail in my aviary and it is a female. I did consider catching her up and taking her and swapping her with the one there, but these two a bonded now and I hated to stress and disturb their living situation. But I may do that anyway.

Thanks gomer for your suggestion. I will think about this a little more and do what I think is best. There are no eggs in the nest now. I have tossed them out.

Post by **Sally** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:35 pm

I think finches in the classroom is a wonderful way to introduce the younger generation to aviculture! There is a breeder/teacher on the West Coast who is doing something similar (I'm sure there are others out there, too). I don't think it is any different than classrooms that have hamsters, etc. The main thing is to teach the kids responsibility.

It would be preferable (for me) to have an unrelated pair--I still have problems with inbreeding and line breeding, it is not something I know enough about. Is there any way you could swap out one of the birds? Even if they are bonded, they will often make a new bond fairly quickly when separated. At any rate, the kids definitely don't need to know the relationship--that would be sure to confuse them!

On another note, there is a whole program in this area with gardens at elementary schools--the kids learn about gardening, nature, butterflies, ecosystems, rainwater harvesting, composting, etc. Very successful, with hands-on being just about the best learning tool. So let's do the same with our finches--hopefully these kids will learn to love finches as we do!

Kiko · Post by **Kiko** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:24 pm

Donna, I meant no offense. It can be hard to type out a message when there is no human face or emotion behind it. That being said, I am rather passionate about breeding of dogs for money only, so I can get uppity - and I did make some strong statements.
However I meant for it to make you think, and I can see by your answer that you already have put lots of thought in to it, and that you will do right by the birds.
I would have loved having birds in my classroom when growing up, your kids are lucky to have you as a teacher!

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:12 pm

I agree with Lynn - I wish I grew up with birds in any of my classrooms - would have made a world of difference. I applaude you for having them in the class Donna. As long as there are no obvious defects upon hatching (2 heads, etc), I guess it's okay for the kids to see and not know the relationship which would only be too confusing for them. But since you've removed the eggs - nothing untoward will happen this time anyway. If you can swap the birds before the next clutch is laid all the better. I still wish I had any kind of animal in my youth (besides a goldfish).

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:33 pm

Sally and Liz,

I am going to take your advice and swap the two hens out over the Christmas holidays. Then when we come back after school, I will put a nest in there and let nature take its course.

My students have been so fascinated by the small size of the eggs and have really wanted me to leave them when they were laid. Which is why I have considered letting them have a clutch. And after reading the post on breeding I thought well...... maybe. But I really wasn't one hundred percent comfortable with it. So I will swap them.

My students take care of these birds. They feed them, clean their cage and change out their water. I am trying to teach them responsibility of pets. And I would like them to have the experience of watching the babies grow. I would never have a finch such as a gouldian in the room, due to their delicate nature. But these shaftails have adjusted nicely.

Kiko, no offense taken.

I can also be passionate about certain subjects. Rest assured that I always have my birds best interest in mind.

bonnies_gouldians · Post by **bonnies_gouldians** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:02 pm

I have to admit, I really appreciate how even such a sensitive subject can be talked out between people without getting our feathers ruffled (couldnt resist sorry:) )

That being said, I am on track to becoming a biology teacher and love the idea of bringing birds into the classroom, I am so excited about the possabilities that I can have with teaching students with a hands on approach, especially sense most will not ever come in contact with finches, reptiles, and other exotic pets. Good for you Donna to bring this gift into their lives and to use your passion as an aviculturist to teach your students responability!

I wish you and your students luck with the soon to be new pair and any potential offspring they may have!

mickp · Post by **mickp** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:39 am

wonder how many times Donna has been asked..........
can I take them home this weekend and look after them?
I cant think of a better way to help educate kids about animals.
my daughters (special needs) school is always asking if anyone has a pet that they would like to take in for a day.

poohbear · Post by **poohbear** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:02 am

dfcauley wrote:Well, I knew I was taking a chance here of hitting a few nerves.....

DISGUSTING!!!

SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED!!

Only kidding...Sounds a great idea...

....Was gettin' bored here...so thought I'd liven things up a bit...

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:35 am

I have been asked many times if they could take them home. I haven't allowed it because I was afraid of escapes..... and stress on the birds. I have explained the reason to them.

Paul,
I was really hoping to hear your opinion on this subject.... (other than the above one)

since you raise Hecks.

poohbear · Post by **poohbear** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:11 am

Sexing hecks can be a nightmare Donna as you know.I certainly wouldn't breed pairs that are closely related.Depending on how the individual birds react to a classroom situation,I think it's a good idea to encourage kids to see birds breeding.The more kids see of nature at work the better...anything to take their minds away from the TV and PC.

gomer · Post by **gomer** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:21 am

Two very short story's.When I was about 6, I took the class budgie home over the school holidays.The cat ate it and I recall dad and mum trying frantically to get a replacement before schools end.Not a good start to bird keeping.Maybe that's what got me interested all those years ago.The budgie in the class room.

A teacher in Geelong has built two aviary's at school,sponsored by the local bird club.He himself keeps finches,and has a good variety for the kids.They feed and water them everyday.and pick greens from the veggie patch they grow beside the aviary.Some kids now have aviarys at home,our next generation of bird keepers are getting taught well.