Gouldian Foot Deformity

[debbie276]

Let us know what the vet says, I'm still thinking slip claw.
Would be interested in vets prognosis and/or treatment

[MiaCarter]

debbie276 -- You and me both!
I definitely think slip claw would be the most similar condition. The only difference being the stiffness/limited range of motion and the lack of control over the toe.

I emailed my vet with photos and a video and his initial thoughts were that she would likely benefit from the same treatment that you'd administer for slip claw, but only if the toe regains movement.

If the toe has no meaningful movement, he thought it could be a greater "liability." The parallel he mentioned was that if you open your fingers, they're more apt to catch up. If you have your fingers closed together, they're less apt to get caught up.
He also mentioned that with a lack of meaningful movement, this would cause the joint to freeze up and stiffen over time, so essentially, it would revert back to the current state in a matter of a few weeks or months.

In the case it doesn't re-gain any movement, he said that amputation may be something to consider in order to prevent injury as a result of getting caught up.
But obviously, we'll need a thorough exam before we make any decisions like that.

I didn't ask this yet, but I wonder if keeping it taped up could be an option. We could stretch the toe so it sits against the leg, but if we find that she still lacks control over the toe, I wonder if we could simply keep it wrapped against the leg to keep that toe out of trouble. (Rather than amputating.)

Definitely thinking I'll consult the vet on this one.
I made an appointment for this week, so we'll find out!

She's up and about this morning doing well.
Her foot doesn't seem to slow her down at all.

[MiaCarter]

steve - That's a good thing! Good avian vets are worth their weight in gold!

Let me know what he/she says! Hopefully she'll continue healing and she'll regain use.
I hope your little one is doing well.

[Rox]

MiaCarter he still looks exactly the same. The splitting image of his dad

[Sheather]

MiaCarter

I have two chicks with similar deformities fledging now. Hershey, a toffee brown crested, has one normal foot and one with two of the toes twisted under each-other, turning the foot sideways. Amber, a fawn pied, has one foot like Hershey's and one even worse, to the point of being alike Sydney's. I'd been observing these chicks since days old and their problems were apparent immediately - I'm certain mine are birth defects. I worry it may have been due to unintentional inbreeding; I think father Apollo and mother Cirrus have the same mom - I didn't intend to let them breed, because not only this but the fact that Cirrus only hatched in July. I knew they liked to sleep together but was sure she was too young.

She wasn't, and by the time I found her eggs she was sitting tight and they were already developing - I could not toss them. She and her older boyfriend raised them without a hitch and have now joined in feeding all the other fledgelings too. Cirrus has been among the best parent birds I've ever seen, despite her youth.

Both of mine are learning to get around adequately, but as I said in my other post, Amber doesn't perch so much as stand, and she sticks to wide perches she doesn't have to grasp.

[MiaCarter]

Sheather -- Aw, poor babies.
I was going to suggest that that was apt to be congenital as that's a lot of affected offspring; it would be unusual if it was coincidental injury.

But as long as they'll be loved and cared for in a way that accommodates their special needs, then that's what matters.

debbie276 --- We got a verdict from the vet today.
It would appear that it was, in fact, the result of a fracture -- two to be exact. There's basically a break on either side of that joint for the rear toe and it's healing in an abnormal position.

As I suspected, she doesn't seem to have any control over that rear toe.
It appears at least 2 of her other toes have some degree of nerve damage as she had a minimal response when cold or pressure was applied.
So it's unknown if she'll get sensation back.

If it heals to a point where she has intentional movement and control of that back toe in a meaningful way, then we can move forward with the standard correction for slip claw.
Without control of the toe, it would do its own thing and ultimately the joint would just seize up again. So it wouldn't really bring any benefit. He said something to the effect of "It would still be a non functioning toe, just in a different position."

If she regains some control, he said we could wrap it and stretch it into the proper position and do some exercises just moving it back and forth to help increase mobility in the joint. Then we can see how she does. If it turns out she's still not able to control it properly, we could just use a bit of vet wrap to wrap it to her leg so she doesn't injure it. (I asked about tape and he recommended against it as the chemicals in the tape would degrade the skin over time.)

The other options are leaving it as-is and hope for the best and if it gets injured, amputate. We both agreed that it didn't make sense to amputate proactively if she's functioning nicely.

We're going to re-check in a couple weeks. He didn't want to start trying to wrap it now, as the fracture isn't fully "mature" yet so we'd be at high risk of accidentally re-injuring her. So i guess we're waiting until the new bone is fully calcified. He also mentioned something about waiting to ensure the growth plates had closed fully. (Which didn't entirely make sense to me...seems like you'd *want* to revise the joint before the growth plates closed up? I need to ask for clarification on that.)

The vet recommended getting a heated perch. Super clever! He said that the heat would help promote better blood flow to speed healing and if we opt to stretch it, then it would help those soft tissues stretch more easily.
Plus it will relieve any aching she experiences from the break.
Super clever, right? I hadn't thought of that!

Sheather - maybe you need a heated perch too?

[Sheather]

MiaCarter - if she's young and it's already healed/healing, I don't think you're going to have any trouble with her. Birds adapt well to issues like this, and overall Sydney's appears relatively minor. I wouldn't be too worried about her catching her feet on anything as long as you make sure her cage is set up safely.

Ha my own birds have way better than a heated perch, we have a clump of branches which sit right near the radiator and when the heat is on high like it is now, it's a nice pleasant warm place to sit on a cold morning.

As for my guys, it may very well be that Amber's and Hershey's twisted toes are a genetic issue, though it may also have been developmental; they were born in an unusually large, flat nest which may not have provided them proper support. Although that would probably cause leg problems, not toe problems...

Dancer's injury was the result of a loss of circulation due to a thread, remember, and poor Jack... I don't know. There could be a genetic issue there. His father is the grandfather of the two chicks with the twisty toes (this male, for the record, has no relation to Dancer) though his mother is unrelated. I doubt there is any connection between Jack and Hershey & Amber, their conditions are very very different. :/