Diet as Preventative Medicine

[TailFeathers]

regarding the raw honey..google "raw honey toxic to birds or parrots" and a slew of articles will come up it is not recommended to use unpasteurized for your birds.

http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/unsafe-f ... r-parrots/

http://www.birdsnways.com/articles/efsep4.htm
"We avoid giving honey to our birds, due to the risk of botulism. Immature and/or compromised immune systems are not capable of handling the toxin. In addition to the botulinus toxin, you also have the possibility of yeast infections and mycotoxins from aspergillum mold that grows very readily in honey"

Google "dangers of raw honey" In humans... bird are much more sensitive...I would seriously use caution with raw honey. That being said....yes it is beneficial for humans. I personal would avoid it for birds, a small amount of bacterial spores and toxins can be harmful or worse. JMO. (I will run this buy both Avian vets in my area...)

http://www.livestrong.com/article/26366 ... raw-honey/

Risk for Infant Botulism

"Botulism spores are in air, soil, water and plants. In the absence of oxygen, the spores germinate and produce toxins. The process of boiling destroys the bacterial spores and toxins. Raw honey is a potential source of the Clostridium botulinum spores. The Centers for Disease Control, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the National Honey Board recommend that you not give honey to infants under the age of 12 months. Infant botulism is a rare disease caused by the bacteria, Clostridium botulinum. The disease causes varying degrees of paralysis. Children over age 1 and healthy adults have the mature digestive systems necessary to prevent botulism spores from thriving."


http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/dangers ... -5387.html
The National Institutes of Health report you should never consume raw honey in order to prevent food poisoning, particularly if you are already immunocompromised. It’s especially dangerous to give raw honey to infants under the age of one. According to MayoClinic.com, giving raw honey to infants may cause infant botulism, a rare but serious gastrointestinal sickness caused by exposure to bacterial spores. Infant botulism can be life-threatening.

hello,

Thanks for the info. I do know that these illnesses are rare and that raw honey and raw milk has been consumed for thousands of years. I just feel like it's demonized and the dangers of both are exaggerated beyond what they should. For example, raw milk is a source of probiotics, but because it wasn't refrigerated properly it would carry the risk of disease and when people fell ill pasteurizing it became mandatory. However, pasteurized milk actually causes allergies and in some cases asthma.

Everyone has their own way of feeding. For me, I refuse to feed egg. I don't believe in feeding avian to another avian. but in my opinion a good sourced honey can do wonders and the benefits outweigh the risk.

Honey is a powerful medicinal source of food. It contains spores which inoculate against future allergens. And in my belief it has a cure to every disease. It's a natural wonder... Again as long as it's a good source.

[cindy]

regarding the raw honey..google "raw honey toxic to birds or parrots" and a slew of articles will come up it is not recommended to use unpasteurized for your birds.

http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/unsafe-f ... r-parrots/

http://www.birdsnways.com/articles/efsep4.htm
"We avoid giving honey to our birds, due to the risk of botulism. Immature and/or compromised immune systems are not capable of handling the toxin. In addition to the botulinus toxin, you also have the possibility of yeast infections and mycotoxins from aspergillum mold that grows very readily in honey"

Google "dangers of raw honey" In humans... bird are much more sensitive...I would seriously use caution with raw honey. That being said....yes it is beneficial for humans. I personal would avoid it for birds, a small amount of bacterial spores and toxins can be harmful or worse. JMO. (I will run this buy both Avian vets in my area...)

http://www.livestrong.com/article/26366 ... raw-honey/

Risk for Infant Botulism

"Botulism spores are in air, soil, water and plants. In the absence of oxygen, the spores germinate and produce toxins. The process of boiling destroys the bacterial spores and toxins. Raw honey is a potential source of the Clostridium botulinum spores. The Centers for Disease Control, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the National Honey Board recommend that you not give honey to infants under the age of 12 months. Infant botulism is a rare disease caused by the bacteria, Clostridium botulinum. The disease causes varying degrees of paralysis. Children over age 1 and healthy adults have the mature digestive systems necessary to prevent botulism spores from thriving."


http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/dangers ... -5387.html
The National Institutes of Health report you should never consume raw honey in order to prevent food poisoning, particularly if you are already immunocompromised. It’s especially dangerous to give raw honey to infants under the age of one. According to MayoClinic.com, giving raw honey to infants may cause infant botulism, a rare but serious gastrointestinal sickness caused by exposure to bacterial spores. Infant botulism can be life-threatening.

hello,

Thanks for the info. I do know that these illnesses are rare and that raw honey and raw milk has been consumed for thousands of years. I just feel like it's demonized and the dangers of both are exaggerated beyond what they should. For example, raw milk is a source of probiotics, but because it wasn't refrigerated properly it would carry the risk of disease and when people fell ill pasteurizing it became mandatory. However, pasteurized milk actually causes allergies and in some cases asthma.

Everyone has their own way of feeding. For me, I refuse to feed egg. I don't believe in feeding avian to another avian. but in my opinion a good sourced honey can do wonders and the benefits outweigh the risk.

Honey is a powerful medicinal source of food. It contains spores which inoculate against future allergens. And in my belief it has a cure to every disease. It's a natural wonder... Again as long as it's a good source.

Do keep in mind that a birds body composition is different from a humans and a small bit of micro toxins, bacteria can be devastating to them. Every species metabolizes food, medicines, etc differently...caution needs to be used.

[TailFeathers]

This is true. But thank god they are fine. They've been feeding on honey for quite some time now. No issues thus far.

[cindy]

you mentioned you buy from a good source and that is key I suppose... personally I would avoid it completely. I have seen what toxins can do to other peoples' birds and it is not good.

As far as feeding bird egg food... how do you feed your bird to provide enough protein for the babies to thrive? They do make dried eggfoods do you use those? Birds do by the way eat their own eggs.

[TailFeathers]

you mentioned you buy from a good source and that is key I suppose... personally I would avoid it completely. I have seen what toxins can do to other peoples' birds and it is not good.

As far as feeding bird egg food... how do you feed your bird to provide enough protein for the babies to thrive? They do make dried eggfoods do you use those? Birds do by the way eat their own eggs.

I feed mealworms and honey, both contain protein. And I do know that birds eat eggs, but rarely and not as a main source of protein. Just like when cats eat their dead babies ... Or a live one sometimes just to get some nourishment in.

But I personally don't feel comfortable doing it, although sometimes I do in extremely rare occasions. I also have cuttlebone in there too, which I'm not a fan of either, and am thinking of something else to provide calcium in their diet.

The biggest problem I've come across so far is the lack...the apparent lack of studies on wild canaries. I can't find anything on them to know what wild food sources they eat etc. I'm just left with cage bird info. If I couid source their natural eating habits and food sources they get calcium and trace minerals from that would help a bunch.

[cindy]

AvitVita Gold is a really good powdered vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement, you can add it directly to the soft food. I do advice that your parent birds breeding, the hen get a powdered calcium like Cal-D-Solve (contains D3) added to the soft food. Both products are made by AviTech. They have quiet a selection of products. http://www.avitec.com/ Cuttlebone is alright but not totally sufficient...the AviVita Gold and Cal-D-Solve will help with the calcium needs.

Are you feeding mealworms? They have about 20% protein compared to a boiled egg that contains 17g of protein. some of my species will not accept mealworms.

[debbie276]

This may be of interest to you:
http://www.arkive.org/island-canary/serinus-canaria/

[TailFeathers]

Thanks for the link, but once again the info is still too general. It does not get into the specifics of what canaries consume in detail. For a such a popular bird there is no information on it. If I had the time and money id be studying them and make a documentary about them as well.

[debbie276]

The island canary is mainly herbivorous, feeding on the seeds of grasses and weeds which it forages for on the ground or among short, seed-bearing plants (2). Fig seeds (Ficus) also feature in its diet, along with blossoms and the buds of leaves and flowers (2) (3). It will also occasionally supplement its diet with insects, especially during the breeding season (3).

*I would guess they are eating whichever seeds are growing in their area. For specifics maybe you should look at the native plants in the area your interested in.

The island canary is native to three archipelagos in the Atlantic Ocean: the Azores, the Canary Islands and Madeira (2) (3). In the Canary Islands, this species only occurs on the western islands and not on the islands of Fuerteventura or Lanzarote (2).
This species has also been introduced to Bermuda, the Hawaiian Islands and Puerto Rico (2).
Within its island range, the island canary occurs in a variety of habitats (3). It can be found in dry valleys, laurel forests, open woodland and on mountainsides with scrub and pine forest (2). This species also inhabits human-altered habitats, such as cultivated land, orchards and even gardens (2) (3). It can be found at elevations ranging from sea level to 1,700 metres (2).

[dutch]

TailFeathers...how do treat your birds for worms and air sac mites?

[TailFeathers]

TailFeathers...how do treat your birds for worms and air sac mites?

I never had worms yet this far. Someone on an Australian forum mentioned to throw in a tiny pinch of Epsom salt in water for worms. I read elsewhere others use vinegar.

Air sac mites I did use honey and black seed. My hen did not even have a voice and she couldn't chirp but I was afraid to lose her and herbal medicine usually doesn't prop living things up as quickly. She had a 75% improvement but I resorted to iverlixux ie ivermectin.

I'm currently researching old books from the 1700-1900s in what the breeders used then for medicine. They have very good info but I haven't been able to compile them. I have no time. But as a history major I benefited greatly by knowing how to obtain info. I'll post what I can soon.

[dutch]

TailFeathers

how many birds do you have?

how long have you had them?

have you bred your birds?, if so how big were the clutches

have you lost any birds...if so how many?

do you keep your birds indoors?, if so how do supply them with vitamin d?

[debbie276]

I have never heard of worming with epsom salt. Epsom salt is a laxative, I have heard that after worming they feed the salt to rid the body of dead worms and toxins though.
I also would never count on honey or black seed to rid my birds of ASM.

[TailFeathers]

AvitVita Gold is a really good powdered vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement, you can add it directly to the soft food. I do advice that your parent birds breeding, the hen get a powdered calcium like Cal-D-Solve (contains D3) added to the soft food. Both products are made by AviTech. They have quiet a selection of products. http://www.avitec.com/ Cuttlebone is alright but not totally sufficient...the AviVita Gold and Cal-D-Solve will help with the calcium needs.

Are you feeding mealworms? They have about 20% protein compared to a boiled egg that contains 17g of protein. some of my species will not accept mealworms.

I feed them baked mealworms once or twice a day. Sometimes I skip days as well, since my seed mixture says it contains protein as well.
I know that 1 tsp of himey contains 21g of protein in it, but the fructose can be of concern if I give too much.

I try to let them get vitamin d through the sun as much as possible and come this summer I'll place them in an indoor aviary so they have a lot more flying space and some natural sunlight.

[TailFeathers]

I have never heard of worming with epsom salt. Epsom salt is a laxative, I have heard that after worming they feed the salt to rid the body of dead worms and toxins though.
I also would never count on honey or black seed to rid my birds of ASM.

To each on his own.

Btw, I tried posting the suggestion to use eps On my way! salt but canary science finch forum is gone now. I had the same idea bc we sell Epsom salt as a laxative in our pharmacy, but the breeder said in small quantities it can deworm. again, everyone has their own ideas and experiences.