Diet as Preventative Medicine

[TailFeathers]

TailFeathers

how many birds do you have?

how long have you had them?

have you bred your birds?, if so how big were the clutches

have you lost any birds...if so how many?

do you keep your birds indoors?, if so how do supply them with vitamin d?

I have 13 birds. 11 canaries and two Zebs. Indoors.
Canaries are being bred off season 3rd clutch so far this fall/winter. Only clutch ever lost was to an agresssive male. He killed one fully developed egg and destroyed the others early on.

No canary has died under my care. I have more birds being bought and I'll be purchasing good stock of Zebs in the coming months.

My birds are kept indoors for now, I will be building an outdoor aviary soon as I can. They get d3 thru the sun and fortified seed mix.

Been breeding birds since this fall. Kept birds as a kid.

[debbie276]

I have never heard of worming with epsom salt. Epsom salt is a laxative, I have heard that after worming they feed the salt to rid the body of dead worms and toxins though.
I also would never count on honey or black seed to rid my birds of ASM.

To each on his own.

Btw, I tried posting the suggestion to use eps On my way! salt but canary science finch forum is gone now. I had the same idea bc we sell Epsom salt as a laxative in our pharmacy, but the breeder said in small quantities it can deworm. again, everyone has their own ideas and experiences.

I'm just saying be careful with the old home remedies. The canary breeders also used to used the shake-n-bake method for mites (sevin in a paper bag toss bird in and shake) which I would never recommend.
I searched high and low on the internet and could not come up with one reference using epsom salt for a wormer only a laxative.
I don't see how honey or black seed could even begin to kill ASM. Do you have a reference I could read? I'm always open to new ideas that work.

[TailFeathers]

I have never heard of worming with epsom salt. Epsom salt is a laxative, I have heard that after worming they feed the salt to rid the body of dead worms and toxins though.
I also would never count on honey or black seed to rid my birds of ASM.

To each on his own.

Btw, I tried posting the suggestion to use eps On my way! salt but canary science finch forum is gone now. I had the same idea bc we sell Epsom salt as a laxative in our pharmacy, but the breeder said in small quantities it can deworm. again, everyone has their own ideas and experiences.

I'm just saying be careful with the old home remedies. The canary breeders also used to used the shake-n-bake method for mites (sevin in a paper bag toss bird in and shake) which I would never recommend.
I searched high and low on the internet and could not come up with one reference using epsom salt for a wormer only a laxative.
I don't see how honey or black seed could even begin to kill ASM. Do you have a reference I could read? I'm always open to new ideas that work.

Like I said before, I used honey and black seed and got a great improvement, but I resorted to Iverlux (ivermectin) medication, I placed 1-2drops on back of neck for about 6 days. She was fully recovered by then. I stopped black seed and honey during application of medication since I don't know if any drug to drug interactions would occur and left another 4 days space after that to resume black seed.

When I first got this bird she did not have a voice at all, heavy tail bobbing and labored breathing. The black seed helped tremendously. It I wasn't about to put natural medicine above the life of my bird. I use what works and when I was afraid that black seed would not be the ultimate solution I went straight to a pet store and asked for air sac mite medication and administered it promptly.

[Sally]

There are many old-time breeders who still use the home remedies they were taught years ago when they first started out with birds. At that time, there weren't so many medications and supplements available as we have today. They had to come up with their own concoctions. There may not be anything wrong with many of these home remedies, but there are so many other options available to us today. Big companies invest huge amounts of money into research, all in the effort to attract our dollars. We benefit from this by having many choices when caring for our birds.

There is no right or wrong way, just what works best for us and for our birds. As debbie276 pointed out, I don't think any of us would want to put Sevin in a paper sack, add our birds, shake well, and expect good results! Keep in mind that on the internet, anyone can call themselves an expert.

[lovezebs]

Sally
Just a quick question.... what is Sevin, and why would one put it in a paper bag, add birds and shake? Not that I'm of a mibd to try it, just have to find out what it's all about.

~Elana~

[debbie276]

http://www.gardentech.com/All-Products/ ... t/Overview

[cindy]

Sally
Just a quick question.... what is Sevin, and why would one put it in a paper bag, add birds and shake? Not that I'm of a mibd to try it, just have to find out what it's all about.

~Elana~

I discussed that one with our avian vet since it was a practice a long time ago... really bad for the bird, the bird gets upset breathing increases and it starts inhaling the Sevin dust into the lungs. any powder inhaled into the lungs potentially sets the bird up for breathing complications, respiratory issues.

There are so many other products out there that are safer like Avian Insect Liquidator.

[Sally]

lovezebs Sevin dust is actually a very toxic chemical, it kills not only the bad bugs but the good bugs in our gardens, and it is highly toxic to bees! Debbie276 and I were just using that as an example of how some of the old-time remedies aren't really that good.

[lovezebs]

Sally
Just wondering what it was used for with birds, I am assuming now that they used to use against mites. Good grief, did it not kill the poor birds as well?

~Elana~

[cindy]

Basically they would take a bird and stick it in a bag or a pillow case that had Sevin dust in it and shake.... equate that to shaking your child in a bag of this stuff.... would you do it... no. poor birds.

Birds have several air sacs and a complex respiratory system..... I am sure many had some terrible health issues or a very short life span.

Old timers also use to take dead fish and fish heads, toss them in the aviary letting flies lay their eggs in it and ta da maggots/bird food-protein. So glad we have other resources now-a-days that we can get and make quality eggfoods and proteins for our birds that are safe and we do not have to worry about bacteria, botulism and disease being spread.

Also glad for the great research food and medicine options and knowledge out there even compared to 20 yrs ago.

[lovezebs]

cindy
I have to agree with you on that one. Fish heads? UGH!!! That has to be one of the most revolting ideas I've heared of in a while...

Regarding the shaking in the bag thing. It's a lucky bird that didn't have a heart attack just from the shaking alone, and then having to survive poisonous dust. OMG, that is just so so wrong. Lucky they didn't dust them with DDT.

Puts one in mind of blood letting and concoctions containing eyes of newt etc. Good grief!

~Elana~

[TailFeathers]

cindy
I have to agree with you on that one. Fish heads? UGH!!! That has to be one of the most revolting ideas I've heared of in a while...

Regarding the shaking in the bag thing. It's a lucky bird that didn't have a heart attack just from the shaking alone, and then having to survive poisonous dust. OMG, that is just so so wrong. Lucky they didn't dust them with DDT.

Puts one in mind of blood letting and concoctions containing eyes of newt etc. Good grief!

~Elana~

Blood letting.. And wet cupping are actually very good. It just has to be used to right way. It's just like today, sometimes doctors make mistakes. The good thing today is that, we have computer software programs that actually advise the doctor when he inputs the symptoms and makes a choice. Sometimes they also consult others or a fee for service company for consultation as well.

The last the point in our health system is the pharmacist who can also catch mistakes.

Those doctors who did blood letting and wet cupping and had patients suffer was due to lack of checks and balances and th lack of identifying the many more ailments and diseases we know of today.

Everyone has their own ideas or views about things, but I think that those who have a background in historical studies are able to see things much differently and analyze them much more differently than others.

I'm only pointing this out, because I feel so passionate about these things and I don't mean to put anyone down or try to be mr. Right.

[lovezebs]

TailFeathers
Love a good argument any time.

Have you ever looked into how many people died from blood letting due to it being done too often and the patients being too weak from whatever malady they already suffered from to begin with? And we won't mention the folks who simply died from blood loss due to inexperienced barbers who did not do the procedure correctly.... And we won't go Into all who died from infections due to filthy instruments. Uhemmm....

When it comes to herb knowledge, that's a different story altogether. Too bad so many of the wise women in our history were done away with by the Inquisition and other well meaning crazy people. The knowledge that was lost there is irreplaceable.

~Elana~

[TailFeathers]

TailFeathers
Love a good argument any time.

Have you ever looked into how many people died from blood letting due to it being done too often and the patients being too weak from whatever malady they already suffered from to begin with? And we won't mention the folks who simply died from blood loss due to inexperienced barbers who did not do the procedure correctly.... And we won't go Into all who died from infections due to filthy instruments. Uhemmm....

When it comes to herb knowledge, that's a different story altogether. Too bad so many of the wise women in our history were done away with by the Inquisition and other well meaning crazy people. The knowledge that was lost there is irreplaceable.

~Elana~

Ma'am..
With all due respect I could say the same or more for modern medicine. Unnecessary procedures, instruments left inside human bodies, doctors prescribing the wrong medicine: too much, too little, incorrect methods to administer. There's a lot more of that today too especially when the dollar is involved. It creates corruption in some cases.

I work in a pharmacy. I see every end from doctor mistakes to patients being hurt. Just the other day we got a call from a patient who asked if something wrong was done to her... Absolutely. Now she has a vary bad infection in her blood.

Anyway. That does not mean traditional or herbal medicine is bad, nor does it mean western medicine is bad. Every individual is unique and they respond differently to different *approaches in medicine. And each one can have potentially deadly consequences due to misuse or personal response by the body itself.

[cindy]

cindy
I have to agree with you on that one. Fish heads? UGH!!! That has to be one of the most revolting ideas I've heared of in a while...

Regarding the shaking in the bag thing. It's a lucky bird that didn't have a heart attack just from the shaking alone, and then having to survive poisonous dust. OMG, that is just so so wrong. Lucky they didn't dust them with DDT.

Puts one in mind of blood letting and concoctions containing eyes of newt etc. Good grief!

~Elana~

I would also be more afraid of head/brain trauma from the shaking. I can't imagine putting a highly intelligent large hookbill into a bag and doing this..... let alone a little bird.