Observation: Egg vs Insect Food

[TailFeathers]

Hello,

I've been experimenting with eggfood vs insect food. I feed two cages with about 4 canaries each in them and two cages without. These cages have babies in them which need to be fed.

What I noticed with egg food, is that its large in volume compared to seeds and insects, the feeding is less and it fills up the babies a lot faster and they just sleep.

I think this isn't good. The reason I say so, is because the canaries who are on the insect diet are feeding more often and have to feed mixed seed and insect mix.

The requirement of them to feed more frequently and in shorter intervals means that the babies are psychologically and psychically more active. They also have longer necks and appear more alert than the other cages on egg food.

I suspect this is occurring due to hunger and the need to beg their mother for food. They will, at the slightest gesture.. Like eating your hand near the nest, will pop their heads up and start making noises and opening their mouths.

However, the cages on egg food are sound asleep.

After the chicks fledge I can give more information about their health and behavior, according to my observation.

[lovezebs]

TailFeathers

I feed both to parents who are rearing chicks, plus vegetables, fruits, seed mix and spray millet. The parents and chicks both do very well.

I use both live meal worms, as well as cushed freeze dried mealies. I would like to try Phoenix bugs as well, but find them to be very expensive.

I am not feeding Canaries, but rather Gouldians.

~Elana~

[dutch]

TailFeathers....my birds consume very little boiled egg

40 nests of chicks only 1 boiled egg is consumed daily

Parents mainly eating greens when feeding chicks...cos lettuce and a hell of a lot of wild grass

[Sally]

I don't think you can generalize with bird diets. My birds are all individuals, and though they all eat basically the same diet, they do have individual preferences. Mine are all fed my homemade egg food, and most of them like it so well that they are waiting for it to be delivered! I have used some insect mixes, most are not as well received as my egg food. I have found that freeze-dried bloodworms, like you find in the fish food department, are well-received by my birds--most of them love this food, and it is high (about 66%) in protein. However, I have a few pairs who will not touch their egg food if I add f/d bloodworms to it! For them, they want their egg food plain!

When breeding, most of my birds will consume large amounts of my egg food. In fact, I have had several pairs that would toss a baby out when their egg food supply ran low, then resume feeding all the babies (including the tossling) once the egg food dish was replenished. It was almost as if they were trying to get my attention, letting me know that they did not have enough food to support the whole clutch, so they tossed one! This happened more than once, leading me to believe it wasn't an accident.

I've also noticed that when feeding babies, my birds go through a lot of vegetables. Since I have waxbills, who feed mostly insects for the first week in the wild, my birds feed mostly egg food, f/d bloodworms, and veggies for the first week. Then they will start adding seed, especially spray millet, to the mix.

What is even more curious to me is that when I have purchased wild-caught birds, they quickly take to my egg food mix. Some of the waxbills still want live food, though, and they won't accept substitutes of any kind.

[Sally]

I should add that IMO it is not a bad thing for those babies to be sleeping a lot, they are having a tremendous growth spurt, going from tiny hatchlings to almost full-sized birds in three weeks or less. Just as human babies start out mostly sleeping and eating, I think it is the same with bird babies. As they develop, they become more active, stretching those wing muscles, preparing to leave the nest, but still spending most of their time resting. Even when they fledge, they rest more than an adult bird.

[MiaCarter]

It's very curious; I look forward to hearing more of your observations!

I've given lots of thought to food for chicks and fledglings.

I offer lots of insects (mealworms and bloodworms) and egg food, which are consumed like crazy by feeding parents and thus, the babies.

I've always wondered about fruits and veggies, as they're largely water and have a lower concentration of nutrients by weight. (But then again, they need water, so perhaps it comes down to eating fruits or drinking water. Eating fruits would bring more nutrients to the equation.)

Fruits and veggies contain nutrients that aren't abundant in the other popular chick-rearing foods -- egg food, seeds, insects, Miracle Meal and herb salad.

So I still offer fruits and veggies with the idea that I'll make it all available and the parents will instinctively know what's best for the babies.
I've had lots of healthy babies, so I guess it's working. *shrug*
I haven't bred a sufficient volume where I could make comparisons.

Agreed with Sally that sleeping is a good thing for the hatchlings. The hatchling phase is all about growth, so I always thought it was best to minimize movement. I've bred a small quantity, so it may just be a coincidence, but I've always noticed that the most active were always the smallest. The lazy ones were always the biggest.

They don't really seem to develop coordination and muscle tone until the mid to latter part of the nestling phase -- a few days after the eyes open or even just before fledging. So prior to that point, I imagine that lots of sleeping would promote more growth, since those caloric resources aren't expended on motion.

[cindy]

Sally is right some birds love live food others do not accept it.

I do not feed live food or dried insects at all...I use grated boiled egg, dried eggfood and veggie chops plus seed, pellets and powdered vitamins 3 times a week. Tried dried insects and live food most rejected it. Our vet also cautioned that protein levels should only be about 20 to 25%...30% at the most for parents feeding young. I try not to overdo it, keep it simple.

Efinch did an article regarding keeping young nestlings full at night..the article suggested that the parent be allowed to feed proso and millet to babies in the nest, it is slower to digest than eggfood...this will hold the babies longer through the night and keeps them warmer.

https://www.facebook.com/zebrafinch/pho ... =1&theater

"That's a lot of seed! You might think that I would want to see some egg food or greens in that crop, but this was taken just before lights out for the night, so the parents did good. The crop full of seed will digest slower through the colder nights we have been having and provide the chicks with energy to keep warm. Do the same for your adult birds. No soft food before going to roost"

(there is a picture included on the site of a baby nestling packed with white proso millet)

[MiaCarter]

cindy -- I've read that too, about seed being better right before bed.

I'm always shocked at how much seed the parents feed.
They seem to eat lots more of every food type, but I look at the crops and it seems disproportionately seed-centric.

Or perhaps the seed is just more obvious in the crop, less so for the other foods.

[TailFeathers]

TailFeathers....my birds consume very little boiled egg

40 nests of chicks only 1 boiled egg is consumed daily

Parents mainly eating greens when feeding chicks...cos lettuce and a hell of a lot of wild grass

This is highly preferable as egg food has too many downsides in my opinion. Firstly, it contains a lot more nutrients and protein — especially protein, which they do not require. Egg also contains cholesterol and I'm unsure that bugs have so much cholesterol.

Moreover, many bird keepers in the states are caging their animals or have a small aviary, none of which would compare to the extensive flight and foraging, energy expelling exercise which they need.

Wild and sprouted grass are super good for birds. I see that Australians are producing genetically stronger birds due to their high use of aviaries and breeding programs.

[TailFeathers]

It's very curious; I look forward to hearing more of your observations!

I've given lots of thought to food for chicks and fledglings.

I offer lots of insects (mealworms and bloodworms) and egg food, which are consumed like crazy by feeding parents and thus, the babies.

I've always wondered about fruits and veggies, as they're largely water and have a lower concentration of nutrients by weight. (But then again, they need water, so perhaps it comes down to eating fruits or drinking water. Eating fruits would bring more nutrients to the equation.)

Fruits and veggies contain nutrients that aren't abundant in the other popular chick-rearing foods -- egg food, seeds, insects, Miracle Meal and herb salad.

So I still offer fruits and veggies with the idea that I'll make it all available and the parents will instinctively know what's best for the babies.
I've had lots of healthy babies, so I guess it's working. *shrug*
I haven't bred a sufficient volume where I could make comparisons.

Agreed with Sally that sleeping is a good thing for the hatchlings. The hatchling phase is all about growth, so I always thought it was best to minimize movement. I've bred a small quantity, so it may just be a coincidence, but I've always noticed that the most active were always the smallest. The lazy ones were always the biggest.

They don't really seem to develop coordination and muscle tone until the mid to latter part of the nestling phase -- a few days after the eyes open or even just before fledging. So prior to that point, I imagine that lots of sleeping would promote more growth, since those caloric resources aren't expended on motion.

I don't understand how extra sleep is good for birds, when movement is better as they are hardwiring their synapes in their brain more often. Infant brain development is by far more superior to resting and growing. Moreover, the birds on the insect diet already have almost all their pinfeathers whereas the egg fed babies have almost none and they were hatched on the same day!

I think that we need to provide a nurturing environment most closely to that of nature in order to do these birds justice when raising them. We already did a minor type of abuse by raising them outside their natural habitat, it's only fair we give them a life closest to home.

[debbie276]

There is so much more in hard boiled egg then just protein and cholesterol, egg is the most complete food source you can feed your bird.
I don't see how anyone can say any animal that is constantly hungry and aggressively looking for food at all times is better off then one well feed and able to rest and relax.
It also is a well know fact that birds that are under feed will develop their feathers differently then a normally fed chick. On very unfed chicks they will only have tail and wing feathers (the most important), nothing else till they are weaned and able to eat enough food on their own.
Purposely under feeding your animals is a major form of abuse in my opinion

[dutch]

TailFeathers...I think eggs are a super food..I have my own chickens and I eat 5eggs a day everday of the week

Yes 35 eggs a week....im 40 years old..with the body of a 20 year olold.im a personal trainer

When my wife met me 7 years ago she was worried about my huge egg consumption. ..so I had a check..blood tests and all

Doctor said what ever im doing keep doing it...

185 cm tall..110 kg...

So eggs for my body is the perfect super food....I call it natural steroids

But for some reason my zebs and goulds prefer grasses and cos lettuce....and it works....huge clutches. ..all babies perfect

[steve]

I should add that IMO it is not a bad thing for those babies to be sleeping a lot, they are having a tremendous growth spurt, going from tiny hatchlings to almost full-sized birds in three weeks or less. Just as human babies start out mostly sleeping and eating, I think it is the same with bird babies. As they develop, they become more active, stretching those wing muscles, preparing to leave the nest, but still spending most of their time resting. Even when they fledge, they rest more than an adult bird.

Hi all

I agree with this, a sleeping baby is a full happy baby, in the 3rd week they wake up and start looking around with more vigour. This is what I have found with my Canaries.

Steve

[steve]

We already did a minor type of abuse by raising them outside their natural habitat, it's only fair we give them a life closest to home.

TailFeathers

Most of the birds we buy are from generations of caged birds, if you take a Canary out of a small cage and place it in an Aviary it takes 3 or 4 days to learn to fly. These animals depend on us for their survival, they can only eat what we give them.

Steve

[Sally]

I still feel you can't generalize with finches, they vary widely in their dietary requirements. If you keep waxbills, they have a higher need for protein than many other species of finch. Many European keepers feed 45% or higher protein when waxbills are feeding babies. For my purposes, egg food supplemented with f/d bloodworms provides that higher protein level. Sometimes, when you see babies with some white feathers that molt out with the first adult molt, that is a sign of too little protein fed during the early stages.