Separating Fledges....too soon?

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:17 am

Hi all. As most of you know I have 4 fledglings. The oldest the one I call EB has been out for it will be 2 weeks this friday, so a/o today it's 10 days since he fledged (and he feldged at 18 days) I've been keeping an eye on him b/c it seems the parents pick on him the most with the pecking and chasing off. I've seen him eat on his own, seed, millet, veggies, also seen him drink water on his own. Now I kept a very close eye on him this weekend (i was home, no work all weekend) and he bathed (his father showed him how) then the next day he bathed on his own. And when the other babies beg, and get fed (which is VERY FEW and FAR between) he doesn't beg at all anymore, and doesn't take from his father (Charlotte the mother is so bad, the babies don't even beg from her anymore, if she comes anywhere near them they cower, or fly off and hide, they are Petrified of her) Anyway, wondering if I should remove him, or if it's too early. I don't want him to be alone in a cage, so I was thinking maybe I should wait until one of the other one's is ready and move them both. I did notice he's starting to stand up for himself too, like if the parents peck at him he doesn't just fly off, he stands up for himself, which I feel is good, but on the same hand I don't want him to end up being aggressive (like towards his siblings, or other birds) because that's how he was always treated...ya know? Anyway, if anyone could please chime in, if they think EB Is too young, and I should wait a little longer, also if you have any suggestions as to how I get him out of the cage... as his parents tought him to be scared of me... any suggestions are much appreciated, as usual. Thanks everyone, sorry, I know I post a lot, but I'd rather ask and be a PIA then do something wrong... I know I'm kind of obsessed with my birds, but I have these 6 and FIVE more promised to me, so I would like to be an expert, and keep my birds not just alive, but alive, healthy and good natured for as long as bird-ly possible. So thanks!

kyro · Post by **kyro** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:33 am

What I do is wait until I'm sure that all the chicks can feed themselves, then I separate them from the parents at the same time. This also means that they have the companionship of their siblings. This is also an advantage when mixing them into a flight cage since the older inhabitants will not pick on a particular new bird.

Arama · Post by **Arama** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:40 am

Remove the mother and let the father finish weaning the fledges.

I only suggest this as you have posted about the mom being over aggressive before. By removing her there will be less of a drive from both to reproduce and the aggression can decrease.

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:46 am

I just checked this sit out: http://www.finchinfo.com/breeding/life_ ... tables.php

It says weaning age for a zebra is 4 weeks. EB is 4 weeks old today. I noticed that the other gray bird, (he was third to fledge, i call him Tray) he doesn't beg as much, and is not getting as many feedings from the parents, but I noticed he did still take from the dad last night... and I've never seen him drink water on his own. The two fawn babies are weaning MUCH slower... they still beg CONSTANTLY!! I'm wondering if their sex has something to do with it. As the parents are REALLY trying to start nesting again, (the hen as laid 5 eggs already) they are more aggressive toward the male babies? Just a guess. Thank you kyro the only reason I'm asking is because I REALLY want to get E.B outta there, the less time he spends with the parents the better off he will be, as they are CONSTANTLY chasing him, and pecking at him... I want to get him the heck AWAY from them, but I want to move him with at least one sibling, which is why I was asking if this can be done and/or is advisable. But thank you much for your response, if there wasn't so much aggression toward him from the parents (and the other gray baby actually, the fawn babies, dont get picked on nearly as much, again that's why I'm thinking maybe the sex has something to do with it?) I Just want them to not get pecked at, chased anymore, My heart goes out to them!!! I've been told to remove the hen, but I can't catch her to get her into a cage by herself, as her mate is her shadow, anywhere she is HE is right up her butt...so to speak, so the few times I've tried to get just the hen to place her in another cage, it has been a nightmare for me AND them!!! (my birds used to like me...not so much lately!!!)

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:51 am

Arama Thanks, if you read my last post (we posted at the same time!!!) I have a really hard time getting her.... I've tried but the father always follows... it's a long story, but I've tried by giving them "free fly" time and opening the other cage door, but both parents go in, and they don't EVEN try to get back to the still begging babies... it's been some what of a nightmare (obviously i was too "young" to breed!!!) I learned the hard way, I am going to try to buy a net today I guess... and I'll try catching just the mother again (that's the other thing when I separated them all the cock did was squak and wine and fly to to the edge of the cage to get to Charlotte (the hen) he ignored the babies completely.... And for those wondering, she was on free fly time, with the other cage open, and he was in the cage with the fledges, all he did was ignore when they begged and chased and pecked if they got in his way of trying to follow charlotte (he flew back & forth in the cage while she flew around the room) But if this is what everyone thinks is the best bet, to remove the mother and keep the babies together and have them all be taken away from the parents together I will do that, but like I said, the father is showing aggression toward the gray babies now too.... So I'm just feeling like I'm at my wits end... So thank you, I'll get a net today I guesss and try to get the hen outta there.... if it's best to move all the siblings together, then that's what I want to do, as I stated before, i want them to be healthy and happy, and as normal as possible.... trying to do everything right, but it's very difficult!!

Post by **lovezebs** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:44 am

lnlovesorange

I would reach Into that cage, grab mommy dearest and plunk her into her own cage. Then I would put a sheet of cardboard or what not between the two cages, so that they can't see each other.
I know you don't have the option of putting her in another room, but if you did, that would be ideal.

Let dad wean the kids, then once chicks are old enough to sex, I would seperate the sexes, unless you wish to have more babies. Not sure what your plans are in this area.

Another option, would be, to just leave them together until babies are weaned, then take the babies out. Mom may be mean to them ( because she wants to breed agian) but unless she's really hurting them, I would leave them alone for a while longer.

Regarding catching birds.
I would not try to catch them when thsy are flying free around the room. A lot easier in the cage.
Take down the perches, reach in, and grab the bird you want. Its pretty easy really, and gets easier with practice. Just remember to hold firmly, but not squeeze.

Just wondering, what are your plans for these babies? Unless you have a pet shop in the area that is willing to take them, or a lot of friends and reletives that want birds, I would consider setting up single gender cages, and breed only when you want extra babies. Otherwise, you are going to end up with Zebras up to your ears, and not know what to do with all of them.

That's something to think about now, before you allow your parents to breed again.

~Elana~

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:15 pm

Hey lovezebs thanks for the input... taking down the perches, that's what I didn't do, that might make it easier to catch her!!! So, I gave them one of those easy clean feeders, that attaches to the outside of the cage and is clear and has a perch in it, it's like a no mess it's like $20 on all the websites... since i put that up, the pecking and aggression has gone down a little I also put up some fake greenery to separate out a perch there is one that is "HERS" and if the baby lands on it she just attacks!! I mean sometimes the baby will be sleeping in a corner, not bothering anybody, head tucked snoozing and she just goes after him!!! Either to pluck feather or peck, or just to chase, she's a real B- - - you know? My mom calls her that all the time!!! lol So, they are not hurt, I've been (and my mom, when I'm not home) keeping a VERY close eye to be sure that they AREN'T hurt, I just thought they might pick up on the behavior (like they did with the being scared of my hand in the cage) so I wanted to try to get them away from that behavior as quickly as possible.
As far as plans, someone on this site told me I shouldn't breed my birds again, as I am breeding aggresive birds. So I don't plan on breeding again. I was actually think about what you said and separating sexes into their own cage. If the woman I work with takes two (she wants males, which I don't think she realizes how much 2 males will sing... but that's what she wants, and she has had finches her whole life so that's what she wants) if I get two males she will take them, if not, I will have these 6, and I am going to separate them by gender (as I have 2 more zebras coming to me, and if i end up with only one male (poor Melvin) I will get the two more I have coming males.) So, thank you for that bit of advice, as I have been thinking about the best thing to do, because of everything that has happened with this clutch (way more drama than i had planned for) I would like to work with these babies as well (the way i was with my birds before they had this clutch) to get them a little more comfortable with human hands... and me. So that is why I wanted to separate the babies out together first to work on them while they are separated from the parents, and i figured the less they see the parents and them freaking out when i put my hand in (which is worse now because of the number of times I've tried to catch the mother) the better off the babies would be, maybe not "tame" per se, but at least comfortable enough to not freak out when I put my hands in, as two of the babie currently dont do that.... i'm getting off topic, sorry.... my mind is going a mile a minute, thank goodness I don't have real children!!! lol thanks again Elana, as always you've come through with great easy to follow advice. I'm going to see how things go today, and maybe take charlotte out if I do end up doing that I'll let you know how it went!!! Also, lovezebs have you ever seen a fledge with like a scab under their feathers from sleeping "headless" ? I KNOW i saw what looked to be like a scab on one of the fawn babies, and I've been looking for it, but can't find it again and was wondering if this could be from feather plucking, or if it could be from her tucking her head in her wing. Thank you!!!

Arama · Post by **Arama** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:10 pm

As much as you want to you can't change their nature and instincts. The really only sure fire way to tame them as you seek from my understanding is to raise the chicks yourself which is exhausting and can be difficult if you havent done it before as they eat as often as a real newborn baby.Every 3 hours. From what I understand zebra finches can be difficult to tame.

Eventually they will relax when you out your hand in the cage but that takes time. Some are more nervous then others, My female for instance has always been flighty and nervous which is why I called her Shy Pie. She will most likely never be comfortable with me.

As far as the wound I wouldn't think it would be from sleeping that way. Its most likely from one of the parents. As a few of us suggested remove her before she can cause more damage. My female has a permanent bald spot on the back of her neck from her x-mate constantly plucking her there.

I didn't think to suggest you remove the perches, it really helps. It takes a bit to get used to it. I was afraid I'd get bit or something when I first tried, It never happened and I got pretty good at it, It took me about 5 minutes to catch 4 males.

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:35 pm

Arama Yeah, I know I will never TAME them, but I just want them to be Less scared then they are, which I know I can do, because before they had the babies I had the parent there, eating out of my hand and such, but now from trying to catch the stupid mother, I've moved 3 steps backwards.... and with the parents, I'll be starting from scratch... Like MiaCarter always says... you have to be patient and work with them EVERY DAY, if not they will digress instead of progress because it's their natural instinct to be afraid. But I'm pretty sure with these babies I'll be able to at least get them not SO afraid, Just gotta work with them... Not so much for my sake, more for their sake, I HATE that they get nervous when I'm in the cage (changing food, water, bath etc) I want them to be comfortable and not afraid, knowing that i'm JUST feeding them ya know? I don't want a parrot...if I did, I'd a bought a parrot ya know? lol But yeah i Never thought of taking out the perches either DUH!! Well, Peace in the menagerie today... for the first time in a what feels like FOR EVER!!! Not pecking, biting squawking... it was quite nice!!! I have been slowly shortening their days too... I used to keep my light on til 10 at night, i'm wokring that back slowly.... sorry again I'm off topic... thanks everyone again.

Post by **delray** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:41 pm

lnlovesorange you have to make sure they are COMPLETELY weaned. That would me atleast 2 months of age, maybe even 3!

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:09 pm

delray Hey Thanks. But if you look at the link in my previous post it says that Zebras wean at 30 days.... so just wondering where you're getting the 2-3 months from? (obviously I TOTALLY believe you, just wondering so that I can look it up) Also, that's why i call him EB (it stand for Early Bird, cuz he hatched at 12 days, and fledged at 18!!)

So, could you put a link up to where you got that number of 2-3 months from? Also, I watched him all day both days this weekend, and he didn't take one feeding from his father, and didn't beg... the sound of his siblings begging didn't even get him to look up, (you know how usually when one begs, it gets the others going too? not him, and i might be wrong, but sometimes, i swear, when his brothers beg, and the father doesn't feed them, he comes over and does that neck roll thing like HE's going to feed them!!!! crazy huh? LOL, anyway, thanks delray I always welcome info!!!

Post by **delray** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:17 pm

I don't have actually evidence I, embarrassed to say,

but I was just going based on the time I got Phineas and Ferb (societies). I recieved them from my aunt at 3 months. I just believe that you should do more than the average. I would maybe wait a little bit longer, but that's just IMO.

Post by **delray** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:18 pm

You just want to make sure they are eating completely on their own, and that time frame varies by the bird.

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:44 pm

delray Thanks hon, I know, and i totally agree, but i don't know if you read the whole thread, I feel like he is better off away from his parents, they are REALLy getting mean with him, more than just the innocent chasing and pecking of wanting to Wean a child bird, it's like aggression toward another male in the cage... that's the only reason i'm looking to push it up a little... I haven't...and i don't want to move him alone, so I think Imma do what they said above and move the mother until i KNOW all the chicks are weaned, my damned fawns, I think they'll take food from their father forever.... i think they are "Daddy's little girls" ya know lol, I will keep you posted, but thank you!

lnlovesorange · Post by **lnlovesorange** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:47 pm

delray BTW nice new title you got there, social media manager!!! I'm going to send you pics of my Charlotte & Melvin (even thought I'm P O'd at them right now for their horrible parenting skills!!! lol) Also, I'd like to send you pics of my babies once they color out in another month or 2!!! Congrats on the new job!!!

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Separating Fledges....too soon?

Separating Fledges....too soon?

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Re: Separating Fledges....too soon?

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