Three Juvenille Gouldians and a Novice Bird Keeper!!!

Ragdoll · Post by **Ragdoll** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:33 am

Hi everyone,

My name is Pam and I'm in need of some advice on Gouldian Finches and after surfing the net for the last few days it seems like this is the place to come!

I'll start by stating I've never owned birds of any description before, so please excuse my ignorance. I am however, very willing to learn.

Three weeks ago now my dear brother-in-law gave our kids a finch as a present. A week later he rocks up with two more - just to make it fair, as there are three children in our household. Needless to say - while they are not MY finches, I am the keeper of the finches, the feeder of the finches, the worrier about the finches - you get the idea. (The kids are 2, 4 and 6 - certainly fascinated by the finches but I dont trust them to be hands on at this stage.)

My concerns are these:

1. The youngest bird (Zoe) who we had first and in the cage on her own for a week, has started making a low 'scratching' sound - like she's trying to clear her throat. The other two birds dont make that noise, they have a higher pitched 'cheep'. Is this normal?

2. Zoe does not have her coloured feathers yet and the other two birds have some, but are not fully coloured (their heads are a lovely tapestry of red, black and tan). I call her "her" simply because the kids named her Zoe. Anyway, while explaining to the guy at the pet store what the story was and why I was asking him so many questions, he stated that Gouldians are difficult to keep, especially as they get their adult colours and that if I've never had any experience with birds, then be prepared for them to probably die over the winter (I'm on the side - its Autumn here in Perth, Western Australia). He offered to swap the my gouldians for Zebras and I dont know if I should consider this. Is this really the case - are they difficult?

Any advice would be much appreciated...

Thank-you

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:26 am

Hi Pam, Welcome to the forum.

I just bet that pet store owner would LOVE to trade you Zebras for your Gouldians. Since zebras are inexpensive and goulds are not, he would be getting the better deal for sure! Sounds to me like he's trying to scare you into giving up your birds. Don't listen to him.

First, Goulds usually aren't recommend for newbies. But having said that... goulds are not necessarily more difficult to keep, but they can be difficult to breed. Once you get them through their first molt they are relatively easy birds to manage. However, they are suseptible to air sac mite, but we'll cross that bridge when/if it comes up.

As for Zoe and the sound "she" makes... I think you and the kids will have to rename this bird as the sound HE is making is normal for a cock bird!

To help your birds through this molt. Provide them with plenty of good quality seed, veggies, fruit, egg food, egg shell, and most importantly, liquid kelp (iodine) which should be given in their water daily. You can get it at either a well stocked pet store, a health store or online. Gouldians require more iodine than other finches so this is important.

I have kept finches on and off for about 25 years. I have only had the pleasure of keeping Gouldians since Dec. 05. I have found them to be extremely beautiful and non demanding birds.

Best of luck to you and the kids. It'll be a good learning experince for them and you'll come to love the birds despite the work involved.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:42 am

Hello Pam,

NO! Do not switch your Gouldians for Zebras. Sounds like you have a pet store owner with dollar signs in mind. Zebras sell for $15 - $20 (American) Gouldians sell for $100 - $150 (American).

Gouldians are in fact very easy to care for and for the most part the same rules apply as with any bird. I know there has to be some other Gouldian owners out there, that will agree with me when I say "The colors of these birds is the myth to their delicateness". In fact I have found my Gouldians to be very hardy and easy to care. Just make sure they get a good balanced diet.

Season changes are nothing to worry about, and since Gouldians are native to Australia, you need not to worry. I live in a four season climate as well and I have never had a "winter" issue with mine.

Also the sound your hearing is more than likely normal, and just the sounds of a female juvenile. The other two with the higher chirp, perhaps are the males, which in this breed is normal. The male can sing, the female can only make shreik noises. The only potential problem I see, is the odd number. Once you can clearly distinguish the sexes, you may want to buy a fourth bird to equal out the odd number. However, if you do not have intentions of ever breeding, you may not have this issue.

Breeding can be prevented by not providing a nest. Its a myth that Gouldians need to sleep in a nest. In fact they will only use it for breeding purposes. On a final note, make sure your cage (as with any bird) is large enough to house everyone comfortable and invest in a lighting system for over all health. If you ever have doubts about care of health, consult a vet or places like this, its much cheaper than what a pet store can cost you!

Ragdoll · Post by **Ragdoll** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:54 am

Thank you!! I did wonder if the pet store owners "generous" offer had anything to do with cost, but didnt want to be cynical about it.

Tammie - I already love these birds. It is a ritual now, sitting in the morning sunshine with my coffee, before the kids wake up, watching the antics, trying to figure out the dynamics, playing the boy/girl guessing game... My husband has come into the study more than a few times in the past week to find me on the net checking out finch websites! I've been reading a lot of the forum posts and you guys talk about the finch fever, I think I'm hooked! Lets just say I think the novelty with wear off for the kids a lot sooner than it will for me.

Michael - Thanks also. I had wondered if the odd number would be a problem, and if introducing another bird would be an issue down the track. I guess at this point I was thinking along the lines of seeing if I can keep them alive for six months or so, before even thinking about the breeding issue - especially seeing as all three birds are juvenilles anyway.
I admit to checking out the larger outdoor avaries at the pet store (along with the gorgeous assortment of other finches) hmmmm.... At the moment I'm keeping the birds inside in a smallish mobile avery (3 1/2 feet wide x 3 1/2 feet tall x 2 feet deep) which I cover at night and roll into the sun in the morning.

From the kids point of view, having the birds inside is terrific - just not sure if the birds wont die of fright when a two year old comes barrelling up to the cage, calling "Here Zoe" at the top of her lungs!

Thanks again for your responses. No doubt you'll be seeing my cries for help again.

Crystal · Post by **Crystal** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:48 am

You've already been given some very solid advice, but I'm just wondering about the 'scratchy noise' that Zoe makes. There are (at least) three noises I can think of that might fit this description--a "warning hiss" (both sexes can make this--usually directed at another bird encroaching on their personal space), a "nesting call" (made by both sexes--sort of sounds like a series of subdued warning hisses, usually made as the male or female enters the nest to greet each other), and a male juvenile's early attempts at "singing" (as TammieB mentioned).

Of these it is most likely the singing.

I planned on making some recordings of my juveniles' first attempts at song so perhaps I can link you to a recording later today--different birds have slightly different 'voices,' but the basic sounds are often the same before the babies crystalize their song. My challenge will be to record a moment when just a juvenile is singing, since I also often have the background noises of the runt begging, birds dropping seed on the floor, and the 3 adult males singing [often in concert].

I do not think I'll be fortunate enough to get recordings of the nesting call and hiss, since my birds aren't currently breeding and it is impossible for me to predict when they might hiss next. But at least you'll have a song to compare to!

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your new birds!

-Crystal

Ragdoll · Post by **Ragdoll** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:55 am

Thank you Crystal, and I'd like to say that I love your website and forum. Already I've learnt so much just from reading your stuff and all the postings.

The noise I'm referring to is not the warning hiss - I've seen that in action, especially after the two new ones were introduced. Her grumbing/grinding sound (for lacking of better description) does not seem to be directed at any other bird, so perhaps she is going to be a he! Back to the guessing game...

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:12 am

The sound I was referring to is made by the male, or at least I was told it was a male. I've observed two of my four birds doing this, supposedly I have three males and one hen. The males, one in particular, will sit on the perch, stretch it's neck ever so slightly and then make this soft peeping/screeching/crackling noise. It's very difficult to describe.

I would love to make a recording, but as Crystal mentioned, it is impossible to record one particular bird in a mixed setting.

Actually I'm unable to say if my Goulds make any other sounds other than the one described above as they all become quiet when I enter the birdroom. Unfortunately, observing them from the doorway isn't much help in identifying who is doing what.

The cage you are using sounds wonderful. It's "the bigger the better" as far as the finches are concerned.

JeannetteD · Post by **JeannetteD** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:16 pm

Here is a sound file I found online of a gouldian. Unfortunately, it does not state whether it is male or female.

http://www.ladybirdfinches.com/songs.htm

Click on the gouldian to hear the file

Jeannette

JeannetteD · Post by **JeannetteD** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:21 pm

Here is another website, this one created by Stephanie, a friend from Finchworld forum.

She's gathered as much information as she can on various finch species and the sounds they make. Some have sound files, and she is always looking for soundfiles that she is still missing.

http://www.insightmatters.com/FinchNoise.htm

The gouldian one is on there, but I found it very difficult to hear on my computer. It could be my settings though.

Check it out

Jeannette

Crystal · Post by **Crystal** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:00 pm

I tried to get a recording yesterday and discovered that my microphone is shot--so I'll be buying a new one tomorrow and get a recording of a juvenile's first attempts at singing. Stay tuned! And thanks for your patience. :)

Ragdoll · Post by **Ragdoll** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:04 am

Thanks for all your help. I checked out the websites, and its not just your computer on the second site Jeanette, it was very soft on mine too.

I guess my primary concern with the noise Zoe was making was to make sure she is okay, that something wasnt wrong. Having said that, I've been watching her closely this week and she (he?) seems fine.

If I had the ability to record the noise she makes, I would, but unfortunately I dont.

Thanks again everyone.

bill2468 · Post by **bill2468** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:10 pm

Very interesting thread!
My 18x18x30 cage has arrived (will pick it up from girl friends house over weekend). I mentioned how odd it seemed to me that a cage that size was proper for 2 birds and I mentioned that maybe I should consider a larger breed of Finch. As we looked over some pictures of the various breed of Finch she became hooked on the Gouldin. To her they look like flying paint pallets and we both saw these for the first time when we went to Butterfly World in FL. where they have many tremendous walk through out door aviaries with paved paths and benches. There was one devoted to butterflies and one that had many Hummingbirds and Finchees flying about (a true Kodak moment).
She has offered to buy me a pair of Gouldins as a belated birthday gift but after reading this thread I wonder if I should stick with Zebras that seem to be "the beginers Finch with training wheels".

BiLL

I hear that pet rocks have very little breeding problems.

Crystal · Post by **Crystal** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:15 pm

If you want to breed birds, zebras are wonderful to start with (gouldians are more challenging). However, if you just want to keep the birds as pets, gouldians are not too demanding and are pretty easy to care for. The only real challenge I have had in keeping gouldians is with breeding them since certain pairs tend to toss their chicks.

bill2468 · Post by **bill2468** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:39 pm

Thanks Crystal!

My problem is I want it all!

80% of the people I have spoken to have said that a 30x18x18 cage should have 2 birds in it (several breeders said this guide line is not etched in stone). Does mean if breeding is my objective? I also like to take photos and a cluster of 2 is kind of sparse. What if I had some Zebras, Spice and perhaps one more small breed, all male for ortiimum color.

BiLL

Post by **Hilary** » Wed May 24, 2006 9:49 pm

Bill -

If it helps, look at that 18x18x30 cage and think about how much space a wild bird has to live in - privacy, room to zoom around, room to get away from each other and just exercise. Even in your new cage they really won't have that (and believe me, I have quite a few cages the same size as yours!). Think about how you'd feel living in a single office with 4 other people! ("I get to sit in the chair! No, I do!") If they're overcrowded they'll bicker, feather-pluck, and generally won't be happy - not good for photos either.

Keep in mind, too, that zebras are VERY active, and very pushy. I wouldn't put them with other species in crowded conditions.

Re wanting it all - why do you think that I now have 50+ of the little darlings?

I know, it's a sickness.....

Hilary