Dry Dog Food ???

[cindy]

That is wild birds... still would not feed dog food to domesticated birds.

Years ago before hand feeding formula was developed we had to create our own... it had several different ingredients in it, had to be cooked down, some of the ingredients they now recommend not to use.

We are fortunate now a days to have many more avian foods/products available to us.

[Babs _Owner]

cindy

I addressed Elanas question as to why so many dog-food articles come up in searches. And I equated them with having to do with wild bird successes, yes? Specifically insectivores.

[cindy]

cindy

Our avian specialist in my state told me they use "kibble" (dog food) as a primary staple for wild insectivores in their triage unit.

I understand that, you taggged me. Yes, and old articles suggested dog kibble and even monkey chow biscuits as well for domesticated birds way back when.

[Babs _Owner]

cindy

Cindy, it wasnt a challenge, it was a reassurance for you. I don't like challenging members. It makes them feel unwelcome.

Im not here to be "right", I dont roll like that. Im here to share my experiences. Just let me know if sharing is not welcome.

[cindy]

cindy

Cindy, it wasnt a challenge, it was a reassurance for you. I don't like challenging members. It makes them feel unwelcome.

Im not here to be "right", I dont roll like that. Im here to share my experiences. Just let me know if sharing is not welcome.

my comments were not a challenge either. I assure you. The question of finding a different way to feed always comes up in discussions, people look at the old ways and do ask why certain things were used. They do use certain foods/products in a pinch... like your example of dog food for wild birds. I would not use it on domestic birds, it is a choice. Some of the ingredients may not be good for small domestic birds.

[cindy]

We had several old time breeders here in Florida that I have spoken to the foods used long before avian products became available were used because that is what they had and what seemed to work. Since then much research has been done and products created and improved.

Here is an example of an old time way of doing things.

The hand feeding "recipe" was given to me by a respected breeder up North, it was not the best but it was what was used. It contained Petimine (still used today), baby rice cereal, monkey chow biscuits soaked for about 30 minutes before mixing the ingredients to cook, apple sauce, liquid vitamins and minerals (added after the cooking), seed and a few other ingredients I can't recall... it smelled terrible cooking it and took a while to prepare, you did this everytime you fed.

All the products we a guess on how much to use. I was thrilled when KayTee came out with easy to use formula you added hot water to.

Some of the ingredients that were included in the recipe are no longer recommended to use when handfeeding.

[Babs _Owner]

cindy

I understand what you are saying.......now. However many of those "old ways" should be respected and those "oldtimer's" some of us learned from.

Erasing the history of centuries of people that preceded the new ways is not respectful of pioneers in bird keeping.

I'd quite frankly like to see more of the oldtimers , to learn from instead of them being scared/intimidated away.

My 70 year old vet can run circles around my 25 yr old vet. in terms of cures, diagnosis and solutions. The old -timers many times have rich insight not taught in the classrooms today. I think we need to be respectful of that..........and especially of THEM as well.

Especially since I recommended an successful old timer to the forum and he is afraid to post. Why should he feel this way? He should feel free to share his 50 years in successful birdkeeping with the rest without fear of rejection.

[cindy]

cindy

I understand what you are saying.......now. However many of those "old ways" should be respected and those "oldtimer's" some of us learned from.

Erasing the history of centuries of people that preceded the new ways is not respectful of pioneers in bird keeping.

I'd quite frankly like to see more of the oldtimers , to learn from instead of them being scared/intimidated away.

My 70 year old vet can run circles around my 25 yr old vet. in terms of cures, diagnosis and solutions. The old -timers many times have rich insight not taught in the classrooms today. I think we need to be respectful of that..........and especially of THEM as well.

Especially since I recommended an successful old timer to the forum and he is afraid to post. Why should he feel this way? He should feel free to share his 50 years in successful birdkeeping with the rest without fear of rejection.

Many of the "newer" foods available were based on studies on chickens and chicken feed too....many I know use game bird crumbles on their domestic birds. Personally I like the newer pellets, a lot of money, time went into studies to create these foods. Some I am sure took into consideration what was used back when. My mother raised birds when I was a child, we had birds ever since. It still amazes me how far even meds for our pets have come. There is no doubt even in current foods for dogs some of the knowledge/ingredients have been taken from the old ways.

On a recent trip to Alaska we stopped twice at dog sled kennels, we learned all about the foods that are taken from nature, salmon that is dried in a particular way and fed to the dogs daily and on their trips. It was all very natural... granted we all do not have that time or resources so we go to the store after pouring over the nutritional ingredients in the foods we buy for them and pick up a kibble and canned product that has had research and hopefully everything the dog needs within that food.

I have sat and talked with many old timers about past methods, it was fascinating...they keep some of the methods and they also embrace some of the new methods as well. Many thankful for things like hand feeding formula!!!

I will pass on the dog food for my birds though!!!

[Babs _Owner]

cindy

We agree on one thing for sure. These older guys really are an encyclopedia of information. From subtle bird gestures, to climate, to nesting materials.

Not always the best on diet, but I could listen to my older vet talk about his birds for HOURS. I never get bored.

Sigh, we should never forget, or lose such a precious resource.


But the dog food LOL I wish I had made videos of that birds recovery. My ole guy said "When its too cold for worms, use dog food, when its too warm for dog food use worms........when you have both catch crickets and throw them on top to keep'em from jumping outta the plate" LOL gotta love him

[Sally]

cindy

I'd quite frankly like to see more of the oldtimers , to learn from instead of them being scared/intimidated away.

Especially since I recommended an successful old timer to the forum and he is afraid to post. Why should he feel this way? He should feel free to share his 50 years in successful birdkeeping with the rest without fear of rejection.

@Babs Please, please try to convince your friend to post on the forum. He should not be afraid, we love to hear different opinions. No one should ever feel like they can't post on here, as each member is entitled to his/her opinion. We especially need the expertise of those who have been in aviculture for years and years, that experience is invaluable.

There used to be a professor (now deceased) from Texas A&M who was regarded as one of the bird gurus in the Texas area. When he showed up at marts/shows, he would be surrounded by people wanting to pick his brain. He used many of the 'old-timer' methods, developed before there were all these new products available to us, and he still recommended many of them.

[cindy]

Many of the old time breeders would sit for hours watching the habits and learning from the birds as to what they need, it would be interesting to have some of those observations shared.

I would be interested in the breeding information based on old methods used with certain species. My mother used very old methods of very small wooden cube cages with tiny feeder cups and room enough for a nest and a perch. The birds were removed from the large cage and placed in the breeding cages, special foods given. Now we give larger spaces to our birds... still it was fascinating to watch the process.

[lovezebs]

My poor opinion for what it's worth.

Like with everything else in life, there is good and bad in all things.

Not everything that was used in the old days was good, nor was it all bad.
And today, the same applies, not all good, not all bad.

In every age, people assume that they have all the right answers. Well, they didn't in the old days, and neither do we today (although we like to think that we do).

It puts me in mind of the old wise women from the past. Many of them had a vast knowledge of herbs, which was lost to us, because we burned them as witches, thinking that we knew what was right.

One needs to study the old ways very carefully and sift through a lot of information (of that which is still available to us). We need to look at things for what they are, not just judge them as bad and throw them out because they're old.
Neither should we just jump upon every new idea (like an all pellet diet) and assume that every new fad that pops up is good, just because it's new.

I think the idea of observing birds (as mentioned above) was the best way to learn, and to discover what they need. After all, when it comes to birds, they are the experts, not us.

[Babs _Owner]

cindy Sally lovezebs

I'll see what I can do to get him to come aboard. I keep trying to talk him into letting me video tape him and his thoughtful (and sometimes hilarious ) thoughts on canaries, pigeon keeping, etc...passed down from his father.

He told me once he went into finance/investments for a while he was young...........but he decided he rather spend his life "looking at bird's butts than have to look at another bankers face." I almost peed laughing. Quite a character.

His wife he lost years ago was the finch keeper of the house. I think thats why he loves to hear about my finches so much. Im thinking of secretly setting aside a pair of my gouldians for him when they molt.