I Think I've Figured Out What's Going On With My Babies....

[SocietyBird]

After a lot of research, and watching yet another couple of my babies die . . . I think I've figured out what is happening.

Every baby - from both pairs of my Gouldians has had a particular black spot on their abdomen - and the abdomen seemed to be swollen... it hasn't mattered what I do ... leave the chicks with parents, handfeed, keeping warm etc. nothing has worked to save them and for the life of me I couldn't figure out WHAT has been happening. The chick takes a downward turn very quickly and within a number of hours goes from being ok, begging for food etc. to barely moving, then dead.

I have two live babies left and a third one just hanging on. They're currently in a brooder.

I found a disease called 'black spot' (see web address link below for info) - this seems to be what's happening.

Given the fact that all four adult birds I bought earlier this year are from the same breeder, and that she said she'd lost 'half of her chicks' last breeding season - I think this could be why...

If any one has any information, advice or experience with this - please weigh in here. I'm at a loss now as to what I can do.

http://www.birds2u.info/black_spot.htm

Thanks.

[lovezebs]

SocietyBird

I have never heared of this disease before.
The write up was a bit confusing and partially covered by the pictures, but still managed to get most of it.

Sorry to hear this, and nit sure what can be done about it.
From what I understood, this is contagious, so you can't bring any other birds in, nor can you breed these birds.

Personally, it would be tempting to take them back to the breeder, and get your money back. If shes aware of this, and is selling these Typhoid Mary birds, then she needs to stop breeding her birds.

[paul-inAZ]

This is new to me but a search came up with this fairly authoritative article:
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_blackspot.php

I'd also try to return the birds and not ever buy there again.
Probably very difficult to eradicate.
With luck your other birds won't get it.

[SocietyBird]

lovezebs

I'm still doing some research on it . . . but the pictures are exactly what my own babies looked like.

It did make mention of a treatment I'm going to look into.. I'm so upset if this is indeed what's going on. I'm hoping someone here might have some advice.

[SocietyBird]

paul-inAZ

Thank you - definition below is exactly it...

Black Spot & Circovirus
Circovirus has been incriminated as a cause of the disease that kills nestlings between the ages of one and five days of age. Black Spot caused by Circovirus produces a black spot on the right side of the abdomen in those birds with the disease. Symptoms of Black Spot may appear in nestlings as young as one day of age. Infected nestlings are weak and fail to accept food from their parents, have an empty crop and eventually die by three to four days of age. This form of Black Spot is difficult to cure.

I'm so so sad . . . I'll contact the breeder tonight.

[Babs _Owner]

SocietyBird

I remember you mentioning the breeder lost a large percentage of her flock. Oh man.......... I'd be on her for sure. That's 4 infested birds you invested in. She needs to shut down her operation and stop selling her infected birds.

Wow I am glad you brought this odd disease to my attention! This is something we all need to be aware of.

Thank you for the important information, and please keep us informed if you find a cure.

[SocietyBird]

Some interesting information from LadyGouldianFinch.com taken from the link paul-inAZ provided...

Black spot is more prevalent in the first and third rounds. This finding supports the view that the disease should be able to be controlled naturally in strong individuals when they are housed and looked after properly. Deaths of nestlings between one and five days of age should be assumed to be Black Spot until proven otherwise.

Black Spot (Circovirus): Methods for Preventing

Identify and eliminate susceptible individuals and families.
Control diseases (Ornithosis, Molding Disease from contaminated sprouted seed, soft food or grit) that damage the immune system and predispose canaries to Black Spot.
Practice good hygiene, nutrition and quarantine measures.
Pay strict attention to the hygienic preparation of soft foods and sprouted seed to help avoid Molding Disease and E.coli infections.
Use Baycox as part of a control plan against Black Spot during the Young Bird, Molt and Pre- Breeding Programs.
Implement a Pre-Breeding Program that eliminates diseases such as Ornithosis and helps prepare birds for breeding.
Use KD Water Cleanser on a weekly basis.

[lovezebs]

SocietyBird

From what I've read about it so far , there is no cure .
They talk about preventative measures, but no way of curing this disease which causes swelling of spleen and liver and death in infant birds.

Even birds who appear to be normal from affected clutches, are still carriers and should never be bred (need to be kept in isolation and away from all other birds).

I'm so sorry that you ended up with birds affected by this.

[Sally]

So very sorry you are going through this, there is nothing more discouraging than to be faced with this type situation. Do you have access to an avian vet? If so, I would urge you to consult with him/her to see what your course of action should be. I'd also contact the breeder. She/he may not even be aware of what disease may be present in her flock, but with large numbers of deaths previously, that should have been an alarm bell.

I hope you can come up with a solution to this. I'd certainly isolate the other birds in your flock, if you haven't already.

[Rox]

SocietyBird

So sorry you are going through this but thank you for sharing what you have found out. I never knew about this disease. I hope and pray it never shows up in my birds but at least now I know about it and what signs to look for.

All the best going forward. It's not a nice thing to do but I would send the birds back to the breeder and rather look for healthier birds. Also, as Sally mentioned, keep them well away from the rest of your birds and also make sure you clean your hands very well after handling any of the affected birds.

[SocietyBird]

If you Google "circovirus" it will bring up lots of further information.

Not a risk for humans but dangerous for our birds. I don't know what to do with my remaining 2 chicks. They're about 4 days old now and strong. I'm hand feeding them. So ironic really to finally have two tenacious chicks who seem so healthy to actually be potentially deadly carriers of this virus to other birds.
Do I keep feeding them? This whole situation is just devastating.

I'm going to try and find an avain vet to talk to but it seems obvious what I need to do with my gouldians. I've contacted the breeder and regardless of whether I'll get my investment back the birds have to go back... if she'll take them. I don't know what she'll do... If she won't take them I don't know what I'll do.... I know people would say 'they're just birds' but i really do love them. Hard to believe all this really.... At least I understand now why the parent birds wouldn't look after their babies. They knew!! That is pretty amazing.

My societies have had chicks through this time and not been affected. All birds are in the same room but not housed together. Keeping my fingers crossed there. I'm glad I found out now because I was going to have all the males from both species together in one flight and all the females together in another after our breeding season was completed.

I'll keep everyone up to date on what happens.
Wish us well....it's going to be a sad few days here. Thanks for all your kind words.

[Rox]

If the breeder will not take them back, it might be best to euthanize them. It's a horrible, horrible thing to even think about but it may be better for all in the long run.

Sending lots of hugs your way

[debbie276]

I'm so very sorry you are faced with this type of heartbreak. The breeder should have had a clue with the losses she was having. Makes me so mad to think she is passing on these birds to other finch owners and contaminating their flocks.
If she doesn't take them back I would keep them permanently away from other birds. Be careful to not cross contaminate dishes and the like when feeding and cleaning. Never breed these birds and pass on the disease.

Wishing you all the best, we know you will make the right choices.

[lovezebs]

Can this problem affect Societies as well?
@SocietyBird

I would definitely attempt to contact an Avian Vet on this one. I wonder if our own Crystal, could give us some information about this disease and what can be done with these poor carrier birds and these affected chicks.

This breeder that you got them from..... I could say a few choice words, but I'll restrain myself.

She is sending these Typhoid Mary birds out into the community, and is causing this disease to spread far and wide, with people buying them and not having a clue what sort of a disaster they are bringing home with them.

Not sure how you could warn people in your area about this breeder (?) I hope to god that she doesn't ship.

[paul-inAZ]

It would be helpful if you posted your location.
Is the seller a pet store or a private party? Or was it from a bird mart?
If nothing else there may be others in your area who should be alert to use extra caution when buying birds. No telling how widespread the disease is in your area by this time.