Juvenile Zebra Finch eats NON-STOP, please help!

[chappie]

I just purchased a juvenile zebra finch a few days ago, and he's been eating non-stop! I had finches before but I never had one that eats non-stop. Sometimes he seems to be fine, flying around and preening/bathing himself. But a lot of time he goes back to the seed dish or sleeps on the floor of the cage, and he looks tired. Should I not be feeding him seed (since I never had a juvenile before I am not sure)? He doesn't seem to be too thin, but I'm worried. I also purchased another bird from the same cage as he was, she is very active and flies around, doesn't eat nonstop.

Please help!

[cindy]

What does his droppings look like? If the bird has an internal parasite or protozoa they will rob the bird of nutrients so the bird feels constantly hungry and the need to eat. Even though it is eating and if it does have parasites the bird goes into a sort of malnutrition.

In the droppings look for signs of blood, whole or partially undigested seed. You can put the bird over white paper or paper toweling and take a picture close up of the droppings. Stand over top of the droppings and focus as clearly as you can.

What meds or treatments do you have on hand just incase they are needed?

[chappie]

Thanks for your reply. The juvenile bird has brown dropping with yellowish urine on the white paper. The older one also has brown dropping but clear urine. I checked some website and it says if the urine is yellow, it means the liver has problems? I'm so worried... The juvenile sounds weaker (higher pitch?) this morning... not like how he used to sound. I will bring him to the vet today. And I don't have any medication on hand right now. Do you know what that sound means? He doesn't eat much this morning...

[cindy]

liver problems can be caused by several different things hitting the liver causing it not to function right

Brown droppings can be a few different thing... Can you get a picture of the droppings and post it here on this topic, close up and on white paper towels, describing it is great but seeing them is even better.

Next pick the babies up and dampen the feathers o the belly back, push all the feathers away as in the picture from the neck to the vent and get a good clear picture close up...there are things in the belly, white, yellow, lumps and bums and distended organs that can tell alot... some simple medications will fix.

Quick question, are you feeding, pellets? what is their diet? any dried egg food?

[chappie]

I didn't get to see any vet yesterday because everywhere was fully booked. I made an appt today at 3pm. Will see what the vet says... today he seems to be much better! And sometimes he's tired and sleepy, always scratches / preen himself as if it's so itchy, but I am not sure if it's because there's molting going on (since he's a juvenile?) and does a juvenile need more food than an adult finch?

I feed them Dr. Harvey's blend (nuts/fruits/vegetables/herbs), and I also fed them spinach (they love it), oranges, boiled eggs with shells (they barely touched it). I change their water and food daily, or whenever I see their droppings in there. I am not sure what to feed a juvenile finch, I hope those are ok, or could you please recommend good food for him? I also put a cuttlebone in their cage and they constantly go over there and peck it, would it be a problem if they have too much of it?

Attached is a photo of his droppings from yesterday, and the other photo is a dropping he did today (the one in water, it's a little more "reddish" in real life).

Thanks for your help!!!

[Sally]

It's really hard for me to tell much about droppings from photos, the color can differ from reality. To me, those droppings look pretty normal.

As far as your diet, most finches are seed-eaters, so I would definitely offer them a good basic finch mix. Then their diet needs to be varied by adding veggies, especially dark greens. Spinach shouldn't be fed every day, but most birds also relish kale, broccoli, cucumber, perhaps carrots, peas. Fresh egg food is wonderful, as it is a source of protein that is needed, especially by molting juveniles. If they don't touch the egg food, then try sprinkling a bit of seed over the top of it. Also, if you just mash a hard boiled egg, it could be a bit too moist for their liking. Try to dry it out with a bit of dry commercial egg food, or some hand feeding formula, or even just some yellow corn meal. Cuttlebone is excellent for them, I doubt them will eat too much of it. Another thing I offer to my birds is a mineral mix. This can be as simple as oystershell grit, or you can add other minerals to the mix. You can usually find a box of oystershell grit (often with charcoal added) in pet shops. Just make sure you don't get the boxes marked 'gravel' as those aren't good for finches. Spray millet is an excellent treat, relished by most birds.

Welcome to the forum! There's lots of good reading at www.finchinfo.com, where you will find many articles on finch care, especially on the Zebra finch. If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier to answer locale-specific questions later on.

[cindy]

You can try finely grating the boiled egg instead of mashing it, that seems to work for some of my zebras that will not touch mashed egg. If not adding pellets to the diet you may also try using a powdered supplement for vitamins, minerals and amino acids to their soft foods.

Go easy if using mineral grit and charcoal... some will gorge on it and it can cause the crop to get impacted so watch they are not consuming too much.

The charcoal in grit can also interfere with absorption of Vitamins A, B2 and K, and it can lead to hepatopathy (liver disease), pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas), renal dysfunction and general malnutrition.

I use a really good finch mix with added millet seed like brown top, Japanese millet, German millet added, I mix the pelleted food in with seed so they can forage for what they want. Zebras are not to fussy about foods, they love sprouted white proso too!

[chappie]

Thank you very much Cindy and Sally! Your replies are super informative! And it's such a relief to hear from you that the droppings look normal, and to see that he's actually doing pretty good today (more active)! I will still go to the vet however, just to make sure! Although I know it won't be cheap ;-(

I will try to grate the boiled egg for them. Just curious, where do you guys usually do shopping for them? Sometimes I am worried if the food I get from local pet shops isn't healthy enough.

Thanks again!

[cindy]

I use Higgins Vita Seed...try to avoid purchasing from open bins at feed and pet stores. Some diseases are airborn and food can spoil, buying bagged helps cut down the risk.

[Sally]

I use Hagen, but it depends on where you live as to what might be available. There are several seed companies in California, there is Herman Bros. in Michigan. Pet stores carry some of the finch seed mixes of the larger companies. I personally don't care for seed mixes that have the little colored pellets in them.

[cindy]

Chappie, not sure where you are located or what is available in your area... Another good source for quality seed is from glamgouldians.com....she blends her own and the seed is always fresh.

I also have seed growers located near me, I usually blend things like Brown Top, Japanese Millet, proso and German millet in my seed mixes. The waxbills and gouldians love the German millet and all the finches love the brown top and Japanese.

To my mixes I add finch pellets.

Another good company to order from is Goldenfeast.... very fresh. They also like their seed mix and the Australian Blend.

[chappie]

Thanks again Cindy and Sally for the recommendations! Sorry for getting back to you guys so late, I was a little worried after I took Bee to the vet yesterday. He was extremely stressed after the visit because he got taken out of the cage three times (and he got out of the assistant's hands before he was weighed and flew around the room); the vet checked his abdomen, wings, legs, opened his beak ;-( and she said he probably has an infection and injected some antibiotic into him... Gosh it was so harsh to have to watch it. And after we got home, he was much worse than before (I hope it was just stress, not because of the injection) so all night I kept taking care of him and I even questioned myself if a visit was needed and I was so unhappy because he went through so much just to feel much worse (because he was really fine before the visit). Of course, I'm not a vet so I can't know for sure what to do. But I feel it's just so hard to find a good vet who know how to handle finches in general, because they are so tiny. Fortunately, my finch seems to be doing much better than yesterday. But still not as good as before the vet, so I hope he will be ok.

Could molting be a big problem for juvenile finches? Does it make them tired and sleepy (sleep at the bottom of cage sometimes, very active another second) I'm not sure if I made a big deal of this situation my finch is in?

I'm in Los Angeles, California btw. How do I put my location in the profile? I thought I did it (phoogle) but it doesn't seem to show?

Thanks !!

[Sally]

chappie You can put your location in your profile by clicking on the User Control Panel bar at the top of the page. You will then see a menu on the left, and scroll down to Profile. Clicking on that lets you add whatever you want to your profile. Location will show up with your name and avatar for each posting, but the rest of the information (occupation, hobbies, etc) will be in your profile, available to other members, but not made public.

Yes, juvenile molting can be very stressful on finches. Gouldians have the worst time of it, since they do such a dramatic molt, but even other species with a less noticeable molt can have a hard time of it for that first juvenile molt.

[lovezebs]

chappie

Hi Chappie.

It is not unusual for molting young to spend a little more time sleeping. Growing all new feathered coats, takes lots of energy, and at times makes these youngsters tired.

With a good diet of quality finch seed mix, fresh greens I offer:
Kale
Spinach
Romaine
Broccoli
Cucumber
Beet greens
Baby Spring Mix
Carrot green tops
Red Swiss chard
Grated carrots
Parsley

Some grated apple, half an orange, grapes halved, banana slices, etc.

Offer small amounts of different things, to see what they like.

Regarding how I offer eggs.
I boil them, peel them (save the shells and dry them), put them through a garlic press, mix in crumbled spray millet, pulverized freeze dried mealworms (available at Walmart in the wild birds section [Katee brand]) . You can also add a bit of Tropimix egg food mix). I haven't met a bird yet, that won't eat this mixture (be it Finch, Waxbills, Canaries, or Budgies).

I dry the shells, and offer some in large pieces (which my guys eat like potato chips), the rest I crush into tiny pieces, which I add to my grit mix. I also add some charcoal , along with bird clay, grated cuttle bone, and grated mineral block to my store bought bird grit (for Finches and Canaries) available at most Pet Shops.

I would offer a daily bath of lukewarm water (which all of my guys enjoy immensely) which keeps everyone clean and happy.

Good luck

[cindy]

Word of caution using whole dried mealworm.... normally when birds eat live mealwrom they discard the exoskeleton, they do not ingest it. With the dried mealworms they ingest the exoskeleton, the outer shell is rough and can cause GI irritation. Droppings can look gritty.

Pulverizing or grinding to a powder lessens the chance of irritation as Elana suggested.