Canary very unsteady, voracious appetite, stopped singing

[vicky]

Please help! My male canary that i bought in sep 2015 was nimble and singy. However, within the month, I noticed that he sneezed and coughed quite often altho there were no other symptoms. 2 weeks ago, he stopped singing and taking baths but I thought nothing of it until this past week, when I saw that he was obviously unsteady on his feet. Because of the sneezing and coughing in the past, i applied iverlux for 5 days to the back of his neck, thinking it could be ASM. He has not gotten better, in fact, he is getting worse. He flies good and still manages to perch, but he stumbles a lot, is always puffy, has an unnaturally voracious appetite and squeaks/cheeps all the time like he's distressed (as opposed to singing melodiously in the past). Strangely, his poop looks normal and he eats everything I put out, that includes dark greens, corn, apple and orange slices, multigrain bread, oat groat and very high quality mixed finch seeds. Today, I added a tiny bit of apple cider vinegar to his water. I am also waiting for the arrival of Amoxitex in the next two days. He is very shaky/unbalanced on the bars at the bottom of the cage and on the perch, and today, when the female was with him, he acted like a juvenile begging for food from her. These symptoms have gradually been getting worse, especially over the last 7 days. Please help!

[monotwine]

Usually a voracious appetite, while the bird is obviously ill or not performing, points to intestinal parasites such as worms and coccidiosis. Both these need to be treated separately. If there is a very bad internal parasite load, they can do physical damage which could result in a secondary infection, so watch out for that.

Be sure to follow up with a secondary treatment for parasites to make sure you have killed all of them during their short life cycles. Usually between 5 or 8 weeks.
I would suggest you treat for these first before giving an antibiotic. If his poop was runny and smelly I would say antibiotic for a bacterial infection.

[vicky]

Hello, thank you so much for your reply. However, since I posted some time ago and did not get any replies until now, I have already started the amoxitex. I will administer to the crop for 5 days as advised by the manufacturer. I will assess at the end of the antibiotic course if I should treat for worms and/or coccidiosis. Btw, do you know of any one single medicine for both of these or, can you recommend the medicine for each of these?

[andiok]

vicky
sry to read this.
at first i would think of asm and you seemed to have treated the guy with iverlux.
i agree with monotwine, when birds are hungry and eat a lots while showing illness, usually is an intestine issue but the thing is that having intestine issues like worms or coccidiosis, is usually associated with loose droppings (dark green or sometimes black color) because parasites feed on them. And your guy doesnt have loose droppings.
Does it still cough or sneeze after the iverlux treatment?
well, sometimes if you cant effort a vet test you need to decide whats best and do treatments according to what the bird shows, so i think you did fine with starting the antibiotics.
here is a good dewormer and a decent anti-coccidiosis med
https://ladygouldian.com/Morning-Bird-Cocci-Care
https://ladygouldian.com/Morning-Bird-Worm-Away

[vicky]

Hi andiok, thanks for your reply. I will check his stool again tomorow, by comparing to his apparently healthy mate who has been separated from him. Today is day 2 of antibiotic/amoxitex. I will also call an avian vet to check how much it will cost to run some diagnostics. Thank you for the recommended meds too.

[monotwine]

Glad someone else could recommend meds, as I have different things available here to you.

Be aware that on antibiotics usually birds dropping change and can become rather runny.

[vicky]

Hello monotwine and andiok
Thank you for taking time to reply.
I checked my bird's stool by comparing with his mate's, and altho they look almost the same, her stool quantity is more (altho he eats a lot more!) and his also looks dehydrated since I took away vegs and fruits while giving him amoxitex as advised by the manufacturer. This morning, I decided to take away his seeds and give him vegetables so that he can get some moisture. He is eating the vegs now.
Can I give him worm away while he is on amoxitex or should I wait till the end of the antibiotic course?

[andiok]

vicky dont take away his seeds.
if no runny stool just give him some veggies but dont take away his seeds. He also needs some good food like hard boiled eggs and some sort of egg food. Always feed the birds more protein when they look ill and have NO runny stool and the opposite if they have runny stool, dont feed protein seeds (oily) and veggies.

and do not start another treatment before he is done with this one.
give him even a week after he is done. too much meds will poison him.

Now that the weather is nice get them outdoors to have get some sun and vitD.
Take some close up pics maybe we can see smth.

[vicky]

Hi andiok, I took his seeds away for only a short time to ensure that he eats the vegs (and fruits, later on) so that he is not dehydrated. I have not seen him drink for a few days now. Do you know how long a canary can go without actually drinking water and only gets liquid/moisture from fruits and vegs?
I also called ladygouldian.com, described his symptoms and was advised to give him ronex as she thinks that he has protozoa, not worms. The baffling thing is that he seems to be dehydrated, instead of having loose stool.
The cost for running diagnostics at an avian vet is prohibitive for me, so I have to keep trying at home.
From my research, polyphagia/excessive eating and ataxia/unsteadiness, could be caused by many many things including PDD/ABG, lack of or excessive vitamins/minerals, even diabetes, etc. However, he does not exhibit all the classic symptoms of any of these diseases, in particular undigested seeds in his stool due to malnutrition/malabsorbtion as well as diarrhea. Im stumped and can only wait to see how he is after the amoxitex.
One last question, can i administer to his crop water tinged with apple cider vinegar at the same time as amoxitex?

[monotwine]

vicky I'd too say administer one treatment at a time. Finches bodies are tiny and can't handle too much toxicity as Andiok mentioned.

Many of the most common ailments you can actually view under a microscope of 200x or less, but if you are not able to view these things, my suggestion is you start with treatments for the most common ailments before jumping to the big things - especially if you have not treated preventatively for any of the common things in the past. Worms and coccidia are more of a reality in finches than Protozoan infections (well here anyhow, so perhaps find out what is most common in USA), so I'd treat for the most common ailment first. It will also depend on the turn around time for treatment.
Here my dewormer I need to use for 1 or 2 days and follow up 6 weeks later. I can safely administer a dewormer, give 2 days post treatment as rest before starting a 8 day cocci treatment and fit in a follow up without overdosing the birds.

You need to check your dosage and administration requirements of the medicines you think you may need and work out the way forward to try treat the most common as quickly as possible. In all the years of keeping birds, it usually the common things we overlook whilst trying to find some complex disease.

Amoxitex is a bacterial antibiotic. So for instance if you are finding your birds condition gets worse after the course of antibiotic, consider a candida infection which often flourishes after antibiotic.

To your other question re ACV. In the past I've been told and have practiced removing their water at roosting time, supplying medicated water first thing in the morning and then replacing the medicated water with fresh water (or water with say ACV or disinfectant) in the later afternoon. Doing this has not shown a reduction in the effectiveness of the medicine. I particularly perfer this method if I am forced to provide treatment whilst my birds are raising young.

Just use your common sense and try not to panic.
We are here for you too.

[vicky]

Monotwine, thanx for the response.
If I were to get a microscope, what do I look for? Perhaps you can suggest a website with pictorial descriptions of common virus, bacteria or fungi I can refer to?
I have put a little bit of apple cider vinegar in his drinking water, and have continued to offer him dark greens, watermelon, corn, apple slice, etc and even tho he eats them when his seeds are taken away, he still prefers the seeds when I give it back to him.
He was out in the sun for about an hour today.
Today will be day 4 of antibiotics and according to ladygouldianfinch.com, I should administer for 7 days instead of the original 5 I had planned. Do you think this is correct?
I am so grateful there are people like you in this forum.

[vicky]

Hi monotwine,
I just thought of another question....
Can my canary eat human probiotics or do I have to get special bid probiotics? I have probiotic in a small round pill form, and if he can take this, how and in what quantity can I give it to him. Can he eat human yogurt? Thanks again.

[monotwine]

No they need special probiotics formulated for animals, and I'd not give them yoghurt either. You get generic probiotics for animals that can be safely given to them.
I use a product called Protexin soluble. I put it in their drinking water and sprinkle it over my dogs and cats food etc too.

[monotwine]

I am not sure of microscope qualities etc where you are, when I asked my vet he just said up to 200x magnification is max you would need to diagnose the basics.
I have a good book that I purchased: http://www.amazon.com/Under-Microscope- ... 0957702485
And if you google Bird Poopology you will find many sites that can be of help. I think the Finch info link on our forum has reference to this too.

I'd suggest you leave his seed in 24/7. Birds know what is best for them when they are ill. If you offer a small variety of other things let him take what he wants. If he doesn't want any, then leave him be.

As to the amoxitex. I would agree too. If he had a bad bacterial infection the dosage should be administered for 7-10 days. As a general rule. Though if I don't see an improvement on antibiotics after 5 days then I'd be inclined to stop the antibiotic (never before 5 days though) and after a few days rest start the new treatment you decide upon. After five days of antibiotics your canary should have been almost back to normal.

[vicky]

Dear monotwine and andiok, just wanted to let you know that my male canary, kevin, is back to normal after inverlux for 5 days, break for a few days, followed by amoxitex and then probiotics.
He is in good condition, sings all the time (rather too loudly when he's indoors!) and eats well too.
All throughout both medications, i kept up with the 50/50 high potency harrisons pellet and very high quality seeds, and a daily offering of brocolli, spinach, corn, apple slice, oranges, watermelon, red lettuce, etc.
Thank you for all your help and advice!