Worsening eye injury

[Sojourner]

Babs
@andiok
@lovezebs

Things have taken a turn for the worse. While the conjunctivitis and breathing problems have cleared up, it is pretty clear by now that she has an abscess and that eye is dead. The doxycycline does not seem to be helping with that at all.

It took me awhile to be able to see what is really going on as I have started medication for Type 2 diabetes a couple of weeks ago and my eyesight has been fluctuating madly - none of my glasses work, not old, not new, so its only been today that its settled down enough for me to actually be able to see her as much more than a little white blob.

It seems that what happened is she injured the eye, and then due to a weakened immune system, came down with a secondary infection. It seems the doxycycline is only addressing the secondary infection. She has a huge swelling above her right eye and the eye itself has a thing on it that looks like a pimple now.

She is still eating and drinking but she is clearly weakening. If she were a dog or a cat I could lance the abscess but ... tiny bird. Shaky hands. Not sure that would be a good idea anyway. I have never seen something like this before in a bird.

Has anyone any suggestions short of taking her to a vet that didn't want to see her to start with?

[Babs _Owner]

Sojourner

Hun, it's reached a stage where only a vet can give you proper advice (and I know that answer sucks and it's not what anyone wants to hear when their beloved finch is sick).

You are a priority. Your eyesight and health are crucial to helping Pyewacket. And when you are able, I would suggest you go to that vet.

I have never had a bird with an eye injury. I wish I could do more .

[wildbird]

If there is anyone in your area who raises birds, check with them for advice and what vet they use. Find an avian vet if you can. I wouldn''t go to one that didn't want to see your bird in the first place.

[Stuart whiting]

Sojourner

Hun, it's reached a stage where only a vet can give you proper advice (and I know that answer sucks and it's not what anyone wants to hear when their beloved finch is sick).

You are a priority. Your eyesight and health are crucial to helping Pyewacket. And when you are able, I would suggest you go to that vet.

I have never had a bird with an eye injury. I wish I could do more .

I'm very much inclined to agree with Babs on this one,

Hope all goes well and the little finch is saved

[Icearstorm]

Sojourner


I feel I must make a large disclaimer before I say anything:

I am NOT a vet, nor do I have much experience with avian medicine. Take everything I say with several grains of salt. Since there are no photos, I am going off what I have been told. Your bird is still eating and drinking, so is probably not on death's door just yet; you still have time to get it help. An avian vet or even a long time breeder would be much better, but if, due to financial, distance, or other constraints, you are unable to bring your bird to the vet or another experienced individual and it will die otherwise, I may have some ideas.


Abscesses are usually best drained; however, if there is high blood flow, it will make drainage life-threatening and therefore should be avoided. As your eyesight is poor at this time, someone else with sharp eyesight and steady hands will have to tend to the bird. A sterilized needle can be used to poke the abscess near the top and parallel to the head; if the person applies too much pressure, the needle will cut through the top of the abscess and come out, rather than going into the bird's brain as could occur if the needle was inserted perpendicular to the head.

If safe, the abscess should be drained of pus. Once it is laned, it will probably start to drain on its own; this release of pressure may make the bird more active. If blood starts to come out, leave it alone and continue.

Rubbing alcohol is a good drying agent, and can be applied to the abscess via cotton ball or Q-tip. Hydrogen peroxide didn't do much the last time I used it, but may be of use. Do not either of these substances on mucous membranes, as they can damage tissue and cause blindness. Occasional exceptions can be made. Fluoride toothpaste can also be smeared on or mixed into a frothy water-based solution and applied; it is amazing how well it works. These substances all cause a burning feeling; bird-safe painkillers may be recommended, but I am unfamiliar with these.

These procedures will need to be repeated every day or two.


I have successfully attempted these methods on a black racer snake. It had gotten a bad form of mouth rot, causing swelling on one side of the head extending to the eye, as well as a large cheesy plaque inside of its upper mandible that extended to the bone. I released the pressure between its eye and eye scale (this part not applicable to birds) and it immediately became more active. After about two weeks of cleaning out the plaque, applying hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, and the toothpaste solution, and feeding it Pedialyte (instructions online), it began to get better. A week after that, it was fully recovered and could hunt, eat, and drink again.

Note that birds have a much higher metabolism and will therefore respond more quickly to treatment, stress, and illness progression.

[lovezebs]

Sojourner

Oh dear....

I personally would apply warm compresses of black tea (not hot, WARM)

All you need is:
Strong tea
A piece of clean face cloth

Soak facecloth in the tea and apply to eye untill cloth cools down.
Repeat several times, and do this several times a day
Afterwhich apply a tiny dab of Polysporin eye ointment or other antibiotic eye ointment and genty rub over surface.

Just what I would do, shrug.

Personally I would not try to lance it, because I would probably end up with yet another infection, or a bird that bleeds out, or dies in your hands due to shock (which would make you feel bloody awful).

[andiok]

Sojourner
never ending ehh.....
First of all i wouldn't absolutely drain the abscess. dont poke it or put pressure or anything like that. because there is bigger risk that the infection could expand.
What i would do is apply some acne care antibiotics cream. any kind will do it and the abscess will drain on its own.
before you apply the cream put some warm face cloth with possibly chamomile tea like Elana suggested as well. This will open up the pores of the skin and will allow the antibiotic cream to penetrate deeper.

let us know how it goes.

p.s. i am really sorry to hear about your diabetes.
Take care of yourself
Andi

[Sojourner]

Icearstorm
lovezebs
andiok


I am definitely not capable of trying to lance a tiny bird in such a sensitive area to boot, and I don't know anyone who would be willing to try it either. It's probably the best way to treat her but not possible for me. I can't even cut her tiny claws without an Opti-Visor, styptic powder right in hand, and the fancy nail clippers which I keep losing (I've bought them twice now and lost them both times).

I'm also certain now that she got sick first and THEN injured her eye scratching at it with her horrible horrible witch claws. So this injury and permanent blindness is entirely my fault due to not keeping her claws clipped.

That "pimple" on her eyeball - turns out it was not a "pimple". She actually gets bird seed stuck on that eyeball now. It is clearly totally dead and apparently no feeling in it either. I was so disturbed by what I thought was some kind of pimple or swelling right on her eyeball that I caught her to get a closer look. It was seed, and since then I've seen her get multiple seeds stuck on her eyeball when feeding. I don't know of any way to help her with that but to always leave bath water in there so she can wash herself and get them off. Scratching at her eye would just cause more damage.

I wish I had cut her nails while I had her out but - can't find the optivisor, can't find the clippers I JUST BOUGHT AGAIN. I do have the styptic powder. I must find the OptiVisor. No way can I do it without the OptiVisor. Can't see well enough even to type and I'm a touch typist!

The Metformin is giving me horrible horrible insomnia on top of the vision changes (which is a function of getting the diabetes under control, not a side effect of the Metformin). So I'm up at 2 AM typing this. This is why I've not been back before, I get so exhausted but can't sleep for more than a few hours at a time. And then even if I'm awake I wish to heaven I was asleep, I'm just totally exhausted. I'm working on getting that under control too.

So poor birdie needs me just at the time when I am least capable of doing for her promptly. But I shall persevere. I hope she can as well.

I will try the compresses. I assume I will have to hold her the whole time? I hope the stress of that doesn't cause more harm.

Since she is getting seeds stuck on her eyeball I assume she has little or no feeling left there. So I don't think rubbing ointment on will cause much pain.

But can I get an estimate for how long in minutes she might need the compress? I can then set a timer and work as quickly as possible to get her back in her cage, hopefully safe and sound.

I'm sorry, I'm not doing that well myself and I need extra help in the form of EXACT directions, as exact as possible. Between the vision changes, the GI upset, the headaches, and the insomnia, I'm not rowing with both oars in the water. It almost seems like I was better off not knowing I had diabetes, LOL!

Like, are we talking an herbal tea, or black tea? Would any old black tea do? I assume I need some kind of non-fuzzy cloth for this, maybe a handkerchief, nice and smooth? Is there anything I can do to help her stay calm? Would it help to do this in darkness or would that only stress her out more? Should I replace the compress a couple times or just do it once? How often should compresses be applied? I'm afraid I'm going to totally freak her out. But that beats dying of an abscess. At least I hope so.

[Icearstorm]

Sojourner

Seed in the eye isn't wonderful, but it's better than a pimple or other irregularity. Unfortunately I do not know how to use tea compressses, but applying them in the dark shouldn't stresss the bird out as much. A thin handkerchief sounds fine.

Wishing you get well soon. Have you heard of water-adjustable eyeglasses? I don't know if they are available where you live, but they could be useful; since the lenses change shape, one only needs one pair, rather than several pairs of different prescriptions. They are fairly easy to adjust, and therefore could be more practical until your vision stabilizes.

[lovezebs]

Icearstorm

You poor girlies, both you and Pye.
I wish there was some way I could help both of you.

Bad health, adjusting to new meds, etc, is no fun at all. Hopefully things will settle down, once the meds take effect and your body adjusts accordingly.

Regarding the tea compress.
I have used just plain black tea bags, in fact, you can use the tea bag itself directly on the eye and not worry about any other cloths etc.

Wet tea bag in warm water
Squeeze out the excess water and apply to the eye for maybe 1 minute until the tea bag gets cold

Repeat one more time.

I'd try to do this at least two times a day am and pm.

I think if you hold Pye cupped in your hand in a natural upright position, you will find that she will calm down fairly quickly.

It's the tannic acid in the tea, that helps relieve the inflamation in the eyes.

This is an old and simple treatment, which works on both people and animals, which is very soothing and effective. You could try it too for yourself (I have).

Regarding losing everything, then running around like a chicken with it's head cut off looking for things....
Start setting a specific place for each item, for example:

Nail clippers in small bowl right beside bird cage, etc.

In time it will become a habit and like second nature, and you won't lose things quite as easily because they always go in the exact same place.

Good luck, and be kind to yourself.

[Sally]

Can't offer much help for your bird, but wanted to offer support with your diabetes. Since you are just starting medication, your blood sugars are probably vacillating quite a bit, but this should settle down as your body gets used to the medication. Wild blood sugars also affect your vision.

With type 2 diabetes, it is a very sneaky disease. Once you get used to the meds, you should feel like nothing is wrong with you. This is deceiving, as diabetes is working on your body, waiting to sneak up and bite you in the behind. I can't remember where you are from, but in the U.S., you should be sent for diabetes education classes when first diagnosed. These classes are important, as they help you understand the disease. However, type 2 diabetes can be easily controlled with diet and exercise, sometimes with meds added. A heart-healthy diet works pretty well for diabetes, though you have to watch the sugars on this diet.

If you need some support, feel free to PM me. I have been dealing with this since 1998, and I can tell you what NOT to do!

[Sojourner]

Icearstorm

Sadly it turns out that those glasses are unobtainium. You literally cannot buy them. I was redirected from the inventor's website to a company he supposedly cofounded in the US to distribute adjustable lenses and yes, they do sell some adjustable lens glasses - for $1100!!!

It's all about the Benjamins. Even if you do talk a good game about helping poor people to see. Maybe especially then.

[Sojourner]

lovezebs
Icearstorm
andiok


So I managed a couple of pictures. This has been hard to do as she has a tendency to turn her good eye towards me, which means, of course, I can't get a picture of the bad eye on the other side of her head.

So I stood there awhile until she turned back to the seed and managed some pictures.

First this is normal Pye (about a year ago)



Now here is Pye today, without flash:



And WITH flash:



Sadly a big part of my disability has to do with cognitive functioning. Hence the losing of things. Of course I do try all the things you suggest but ... my brain is broken for all intents and purposes. I'm going to make another sweep for the Optivisor and the clippers and hope for the best but the fact that I have moving boxes piled up in one corner of the living room and in the garage doesn't help things any. I'm STILL painting. Don't get much done in any given session of painting so that is likely to continue for quite awhile.

Using just a tea bag is a great idea! Too bad I didn't think of it, LOL! I will give this a try first thing tomorrow.

Hopefully I will find my optivisor at least in the meantime and I can clip those nails even if I have to clip them long with my cheap crappy regular nail clipper. I don't dare get too close to the quick in any case. The cheap crappy regular nail clippers leave a ragged edge on my nails so I assume they'll do the same for birdy nails, but at least I know where they are.

[Sheather]

I would put this bird down.

[Sojourner]

Sheather

Would you really? And why would you do that? She continues to eat and drink. She does not seem to be suffering THAT much yet.

If she stops eating and drinking I don't imagine she will last long. I doubt I would actually need to put her down.

Just how would you do that, if it were actually to become necessary?

Keeping in mind I am unlikely to do any such thing unless someone I know and trust better were to explain to me why that might be necessary.