New CB's

Hope · Post by **Hope** » Sun May 17, 2009 12:14 am

I received a CB for Mother's day as a mate to my male BCCB.
My daughter-in-law got her at a pet store. I scoured everyone's pictures for comparison. I think she is a RCCB, as the brown on her head goes to the top of her beak , the blue on her cheeks only goes to her eyes and her beak is a little slenderer and darker.

It seems that all the Petsmarts have an assortment of CB's and not pairs of the same.

After several trips I found what I hope is a female BCCB. Above her beak is blue and the color on her cheeks goes beyond her eyes.

I had seen a male RCCB at another store. He had beautiful, almost round red cheeks. I went today to get him and he was gone.

I'll have to do some more scouting.

My male BCCB doesn't seem to interested in the new hen though. I've had him about 1 1/2 yrs......is he a confirmed bachelor

Finch Fry · Post by **Finch Fry** » Sun May 17, 2009 12:25 am

I stand corrected, listen to Sally

Post by **Sally** » Sun May 17, 2009 12:43 am

Hope, I have gotten most of my CBs as pairs, but when I have had to add a new mate, I've noticed that the CBs don't usually act like they are thrilled to have the new mate. They take a little time, but eventually they really like to cuddle, and they also allopreen a lot. Congrats on getting some CBs, I just love them--they are so colorful, and then both male and female sing--I would never want to be without some of them.

Hate to correct you, Chris, but the RCCBs and BCCBs are just two subspecies of Cordon Bleus, and they will crossbreed in a heartbeat, especially in the case of the hens, as it is sometimes difficult to tell them apart. All of my RCCB hens have less blue, virtually none on the top of their heads, much slimmer bodies, and more pointy beaks with darker tips. The BCCB hens have more blue, some on top of their heads, a more rounded body shape, and shorter, more pink beaks. The males, of course, are easy, because the RCCBs have the red cheek patch.

I am really bothered by the fact that so many stores, vendors, breeders, whatever, are not paying attention to this. The good breeders are very careful to keep the two subspecies separated and pure. But I was recently discussing this with a local finch breeder, and he believes that a lot of places like the flea markets that carry birds pay no attention to keeping bloodlines pure--they will breed whatever they happen to have. I know I have no history on many of my breeding birds, and some of them have come from craigslist, so I need to watch very carefully for any signs of birds that don't seem to be pure. Course, I have to get the little buggers to raise their babies first!

mike · Post by **mike** » Sun May 17, 2009 6:12 am

Sally, I think they are different species rather than sub-species. They have different specific (i.e.: species) names in their binomial nomenclature. A sub-species would be, for example, Uraeginthus bengalus bengalus and
Uraeginthus bengalus cyanocephalus if the red-cheeked was the first described species and the blue-capped was the subsequent described sub-species.
I may be wrong though. I'm basing their scientific names on the internet

I also wondered if the new bird from the flea market was a cross of RC and BC. That might make it harder to ID. But I hope you have some good luck pairing up your birds!

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Sun May 17, 2009 6:22 am

I wish I could help you, but I cannot even tell mine apart.

I have one pair of each and they are very bonded. But when all four are eating at the worm dish.... I do not know one hen from the other.

I suppose I could look closely and try to figure it out, I just haven't.

I will say that mine do as Sally says..... they cuddle together on the perch or tree and preen alot. I have had both pairs sitting on eggs at the same time and no problems. Everyone says not to keep them together (the two males) but I suppose since mine are not in a cage it works for me.

Good luck in finding the one you need.

Post by **Sally** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:12 am

Mike, I see what you are saying. I don't know enough about the scientific names. Some websites, including the FIC, list them as 3 subspecies, which is what I was going by. Other websites list them as 3 species. I still believe they will crossbreed easily, so it is best to try to keep the bloodlines pure. On one website I found, the person described the beak of their BCCBs as fuschia, which I think is more descriptive than just pink.

I think my pairs are all OK, several have come from reputable breeders, and the ones I have gotten from craigslist 'look' pure. If I get a red cheek patch on a BCCB baby someday, I will know those parents are not pure!

I have only been to this one huge flea market one time to look at birds. One vendor looks like it is OK, but the others had birds crammed into cages, and the birds did not look healthy, so I never went back.

mike · Post by **mike** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:27 am

Sally wrote:Mike, I see what you are saying. I don't know enough about the scientific names. Some websites, including the FIC, list them as 3 subspecies, which is what I was going by.

I just thought there something I didn't know! ;) I was totally not trying to offend you and I hope I didn't. Sometimes the wrong species name gets bastardized with proliferation on the internet so maybe one part of the name was missing (eg: maybe the real name is Uraeginthus b. bengalus but people have just been omitting the middle name.) I don't have any finch books so the internet is all I have and that can't be good news

Post by **Sally** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:38 am

Oh, Mike, you didn't offend me at all! As you said, sometimes things get changed around on the internet, so can't always depend on it. I have gotten so used to saying 'subspecies' that it became fact in my head.

I have the same problem with plants--I never use the scientific names, and there are many different plants that can have the same common name, so that leads to confusion.

Rayray · Post by **Rayray** » Sun May 17, 2009 2:44 pm

here's the species / sub species we have or know .... and as said before they do breed together so its up to us *birdlovers* to keep the species pure .

http://www.scapnl.com/index.php?option= ... 18&Itemid=

Ray

Hope · Post by **Hope** » Sun May 17, 2009 2:51 pm

I just love my BC's. The hens are pretty active and now that I've studied the differneces I can tell the two apart. Looking back it's sort of embrassing

how I went back and forth from my computer, to the bird room, to the bird store three times to make a comparison.
It was frustrating to find them all mixed at the store. Thanks to everyone's input, hopefully I won't be cross-breeding.

I hope my male "Huckleberry" quits pouting and joins in. I love his song and he's been sort of quite.

Hurrah

Just found out there's a Bird Mart in two weeks. Maybe I'll find another RCCB

fincher · Post by **fincher** » Mon May 18, 2009 8:02 am

if you post pics of them i should hopefully be able to tell them apar from being either bccb or rccb hens if you want

and with as if they aresub species no there no there all different species of cordon blues but there sub species of the rccb and the blue breasted cordon blue. theres 4 of the rccb and 3 of the blue breasted

mike · Post by **mike** » Mon May 18, 2009 8:42 am

fincher wrote:if you post pics of them i should hopefully be able to tell them apar from being either bccb or rccb hens if you want

and with as if they aresub species no there no there all different species of cordon blues but there sub species of the rccb and the blue breasted cordon blue. theres 4 of the rccb and 3 of the blue breasted

Do you have the sub-species names?

Hope · Post by **Hope** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:19 pm

Thanks Ray for the link....good pictures. I think I idenified my birds correctly.

The RCCB that I wanted from the store but missed, had those same round red cheeks. Is that the way they should be

I found another male at a different store, but his cheeks were smaller, sort of slashes of color.