Girl Cage

lovemyfinch · Post by **lovemyfinch** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:39 am

Crossing our feathers over here for a quick recovery.

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:20 am

Nagdabit wrote:did a swab of her poop (negative for yeast) and basically came up with nothing definitive.

Did they only swab her poop and not her mouth??
When most people talk about yeast in birds - it usually develops in the crop and would only be passed in large quantities in the poop if there is a heavy infection.

If you have a probiotic, I would be sure to administer it after the TMS.. this is another Antibiotic.
If you don't have probiotics or Medistatin (anti-fungal), I'd be happy to send you some of mine no-charge.. cheaper than a vet :/

MLaRue · Post by **MLaRue** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:07 am

nixity wrote:I bought one 30lb bag..

It came full of moths and moth larvae

I would personally never buy their seed again

I bought Abba seed from a third party vendor once and it smelled like vomit, it was horrible.

And, it was full of moths. I trashed it all!

I didn't complain because I tried to about something else in the past and it was like talking to a wall with that problem... So, after those two issues I never bought from them again and needless to say I will never forget that smell either. I'll be staying with Herman Brothers for my seed.

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:12 am

It's funny you mention that, because you're now the fourth person who has told me not to bother trying to contact Abba directly about anything.. and two people have told me that going there is a double edged sword because they'll offer you great prices if you're physically in the store, but they are extremely rude/not customer friendly simultaneously.. so it's like, if you can take a beating once a month to make it down there you might be able to save $10 or so on supplies but the way they treat customers it's almost like is it even worth it.

They are close by me, and I've never bothered to go..

I mean they are one of the largest suppliers next to BSNH and they wouldn't sponsor the seminar...

Nagdabit · Post by **Nagdabit** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:17 pm

nixity wrote:Did they only swab her poop and not her mouth??

As far as I know, yes. But he did have the tweezers out to pry open her beak and check everything out down there. I didn't pay attention as to whether he actually took a sample or not.

nixity wrote:If you have a probiotic, I would be sure to administer it after the TMS.. this is another Antibiotic.

The Guardian Angel product that we ordered arrived today. Would that be sufficient? We also bought a small bag of some new Kaytee seed last night on the way home that has probiotic qualities built in.

nixity wrote:If you don't have probiotics or Medistatin (anti-fungal), I'd be happy to send you some of mine no-charge.. cheaper than a vet :/

That's extremely kind of you to offer. If she makes it that far and if you think neither of the aforementioned products would work, we'll gladly take you up on the offer, ONLY IF you'd like to send some medicine along with an order. We'll probably need some more Hatched and Herb salad soon

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:25 pm

Nagdabit wrote:
The Guardian Angel product that we ordered arrived today. Would that be sufficient? We also bought a small bag of some new Kaytee seed last night on the way home that has probiotic qualities built in.

I think so - I thought originally that it was just an electrolyte, but in looking up the product it also contains some pre/probiotics, so I think this product would probably work.

The only thing I would mention is that it looks to be an electrolyte + probiotic, and I know with Thrive, Misty informed me that it can cause diarrhea if given more than three days.

So I wouldn't use it just for it's probiotics - I would eventually get just a probiotic as well, which can be given daily even in healthy birds to help keep them healthy.

Nagdabit · Post by **Nagdabit** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:46 am

nixity wrote:If you have a probiotic, I would be sure to administer it after the TMS.. this is another Antibiotic.

If you don't have probiotics or Medistatin (anti-fungal)

Which do you think would work best? Little girl's doing about the same. Not any real noticeable improvement, but not worse either. How long do you think we should continue to administer the antibiotic?

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:48 am

Nagdabit wrote:
nixity wrote:If you have a probiotic, I would be sure to administer it after the TMS.. this is another Antibiotic.

If you don't have probiotics or Medistatin (anti-fungal)
Which do you think would work best? Little girl's doing about the same. Not any real noticeable improvement, but not worse either. How long do you think we should continue to administer the antibiotic?

If she is no worse, I'd continue for whatever the vet recommended.. you only want to stop an antibiotic if it's to switch to a different a-biotic because she's dying.

Nagdabit · Post by **Nagdabit** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:38 am

Sorry it was late and I didn't make myself very clear. I wasn't planning on stopping the current medication. I meant after running the course of antibiotics. Should we then follow up with a probiotic or go straight to the anti fungal? Doc didn't specify how long to continue with the antibiotic, we usually do something like 2 weeks. But I think if she isn't showing any improvement after one, I'll give him a call and see what he recommends. Sorry again for the confusion.

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:31 am

oh okay

it was late when i replied as well and i did it hastily.
its 6 of one, half dozen of another.
using a probiotic (for me.. because im not sure of the whole gut flora thing in finches) serves the same function after abiotics as an anti fungal which is to prevent thrush/yeast infections.
so you can use either or.. but i think you have to be a bit more aggressive and proactive if using probiotics.. like every day for 10 days whereas the antifungal is more specifically medicinal and only needs to be done for 5-7 days.

CandoAviary · Post by **CandoAviary** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:35 pm

Here I feed only ABBA seed. I order 250 and upwards pounds at a time, I have been buying from them for 10+ years and never had a moth/bug. I only buy in bulk, that way they bag it in sacks fresh. I buy direct from the plant...(Elizabeth City) never a middle man or at shows (a lot of old product is commonly passed on at shows of all brands). I would write ABBA and let them know if a store is selling outdated product. Once it leaves their warehouse then it is out of their control.
My birds thrive and reproduce well on this diet.I feed canary diet, finch diet, european finch mix, parakeet, sm. hookbill, songfood, parakeet treat, fruit and nut mix, and eggfood. (I also use Goldenfeast products and Orlux Products) The shipping freight cost me $ 82.00 for every 200 lbs. to get it to Florida but it is well worth it. I have only had positive products. I order the cage bank from them, about the only place you can find them in this country. Also nest, grit, cups, waterers, etc. I agree they can be abrupt in their dealings....I attributed that to being Yankees

.... My husband is from New Jersey so I have him call in my orders......

see... I do love New Jersey Yankee's

I would gladly switch seed companies, especially if they were closer, but I have tried them all and nothing compares to the quality of ABBA seed.
Sounds like I am a spokesperson....LOL Just a pleased customer that has gone through litterally tons of seed from this company over the last 10 years. I feed an average of 200 and up birds a day

Post by **Sally** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:30 am

I will chime in with Candace on the Abba seed. I have used it in the past, but always dealt directly with the company in New Jersey. Yes, they can be abrupt, but as long as I got my seed, that didn't bother me. I have also ordered direct from Herman Bros., another good seed company. The shipping costs starting getting to me, and now my local bird club has worked out a deal on Hagen seed, which my birds seem to like and do well on.

Any time you have seed kept around for a while, you can get seed moths. I have been battling them lately, from seed I got locally when I ran out. The best way to keep them out of the seed, if you have the space, is to keep it in the freezer.

Nagdabit · Post by **Nagdabit** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:57 am

Little Miss Nika is holding her own. While she still remains fluffed and parked in front of the UVB light, she will come down to eat (spray millet only) and can still fly pretty decent. We weren't sure if she was drinking her water so we started catching twice a day and giving her the medicine via a syringe. The one thing I'm still wondering about is the way her lower body seems to convulse (for lack of a better word) I guess it could all be tied into her breathing, but when she sits on a perch it looks like her whole little body pulsates. It's especially noticeable towards her rear section, hence the reason why we thought initially that she was egg bound.

For those of you who have used the product, would it be counter productive to put Guardian Angel in her drinking water while still administering the antibiotic? I realize that the Guardian Angel product has probiotic qualities, but I assume it's more to it than just that.

It's just strange to us that she isn't responding favorably to any treatment. And I'm still not sure if her preference of the UVB light over the infra red light is significant. Whatever the case, she such a little sweetie and we'd really hate to lose her, but right now it's really hard to be optimistic.

Nagdabit · Post by **Nagdabit** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:30 pm

Quick update on our little girl. She's still hanging in there but she’s looking a little rough. Monday night while I was watching her, she flew down to the bottom of the cage and left go with a tremendous poo. I quickly pulled out the tray to discover that, while she did poo, she also expelled a mass of egg yolk. About an hour later I noticed more goopage along with about half of an extremely thin egg shell. Not sure where the other half is, she still hasn't expelled to our knowledge, but there remains the possibility that she did and then ate it, cause she was trying to get to the yolk on Monday night.

I was hoping that after getting rid of the egg, we'd see some improvement, but alas not so much. She still sits fluffed up in front of the UVB light. We’re continuing the trimethoprim as the doctor prescribed as well as providing some calcium for her.

When I updated the breeder we got her from on her condition she replied that we’re giving her too much calcium, thus implying that we’re contributing to Miss Nika’s misery. I would think a soft-shell egg would mean not enough calcium but then I’m not the expert. We do provide her with eggshell and a cuttle bone but we never see her anywhere near them. All she ever eats is spray millet. I was thinking of including the guardian angel into the mix but would like some feedback from those more experienced first. I do have a call into our vet but will not hear from them until tomorrow at the earliest.

On a related note, we have another hen (one of our plucked girls) who was in with Nika for a while and most likely has ingested some trimethoprim while there. Now she has a very wet vent. I apologize for taking the lazy way out here and not looking it up myself, but what would be the best course of action for her? I was thinking of trying the guardian angel with her as well, but like was stated earlier in this thread, it could cause diarrhea if used for awhile. Would just plain probiotics be beneficial for her?

We both greatly appreciate all of the assistance that you kind folks have been providing. While the outlook certainly isn’t promising, we’re not ready to give up on our little girl yet, so everyone’s concern has been of tremendous value to us.

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:21 pm

Rory - I'm not sure if the GA for sure causes Diarrhea, I just know from a reliable source that Thrive causes Diarrhea after about three days.

You would have to compare the ingredients, and there is very little in the way of information about Marshall products on the internet (definitely not ingredients in most cases!).

I don't think it would be an issue - and in this case, the probiotics it contains may benefit the hen with the pasty butt.