Strange beak problem

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:06 pm

Hi, I'm JohnBoy, I am new to the forums. I am 59 years old and disabled. I was born in New Orleans. I have been raising finches almost all my life. I quit in the early 90's cause I got interested in breeding dart frogs. I quit breeding the frogs after Katrina hit. I lost almost everything in the storm. I evacuated to Kentwood. I decided to stay. After 3 years of living here I decided I needed a hobby. I decided to raise finches again after a long absence. So I had 2 aviaries built, one 6x12 the other 8x16. I purchase most my birds from Singing Wings Aviary.
Well heres the problem. I bought a pair of orange face Goulds a few months ago from a local pet store. All appeared fine. They went right to nesting. They laid 4 eggs and sat religiously, especially the male. The large cage I have them in also houses a pair of Starfinches. This morning I got up and started my morning routine. When I got to the goulds I noticed no one was in the nest and the male was on the bottom of the cage unable to fly up and perch. He would go straight down when he'd try to fly. I removed the bird and set up a hospital cage. Not knowing whats wrong with the bird the only thing I knew to do was to put heat and medicated water in his water dish. It's been about 25 years (since I had finches) so I am a little rusty on knowledge . I also noticed something strange. His beak appears to have a shell like coating over it and its cracked down the middle. I dont see his nostrils. It appears this shell is blocking the nostrils. I have no clue if this condition has anything to do with the condition of the bird but it sure is curious. Does anyone have a clue? Thanks in advance. JohnBoy

Brette · Post by **Brette** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:36 pm

Hi! Wow you've been through a lot but i bet you're going to have a really nice aviary. I live in Canada so I'm jealous of people who can have outdoor aviaries.

This is just a guess as I'm no expert but could your bird have scaly face mite? Here are some examples:

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h ... N%26um%3D1

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:58 pm

Hi, and thanks for the quick reply. I am not sure. It is not messy looking like the pictures. Its smooth. Like its a beak growing on top of the beak. I know its a growth because of the crack down the center. Where it cracked its separated from the beak. It looks like I could take a small knife or similar and slide it under the growth and pop it off. However I would not do that unless I was supposed to. I can try and take a closeup and post the pic. I just hope i can figure out how to post a pic here. Let me see what I can do.

CandoAviary · Post by **CandoAviary** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:47 pm

Very strange. It does look like a second beak grew over the old.... Maybe a avian vet could cut it away.

PS welcome to the forum. Dart frogs are awesome. Katrina was a terrible thing... glad you are settled again.

Post by **Sally** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:01 am

That is the strangest growth I've ever seen. I've had a few of my birds get growths on their beaks, but it is usually just a slim piece that grows out alongside the beak, and it is easily snipped off with cuticle nippers. That is so smooth-looking--it does look like it could just pop off, though it looks like it is coming out of the skin just above the beak. Hopefully, someone who has seen this type of growth will chime in.

Finch Fry · Post by **Finch Fry** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:43 am

I wonder if that growth is starting to close over his nostrils and he is slowly starting to struggle for air.

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:43 am

Finch Fry wrote:I wonder if that growth is starting to close over his nostrils and he is slowly starting to struggle for air.

I don't know, but I sure would get that bird to a vet if I could asap.

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:51 am

Hello and welcome to the Finch Forum. I've not had personal experience with that either and I wouldn't risk trying to remove it myself. I hope you have an avian experienced vet nearby...? I don't think it is covering the neres at the sides but I'm not positive.

When you catch the poor thing - can you brush the feathers to the side (where the neres / nostrils are) to see if they are in fact being grown over?

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:10 am

Well I now do believe it is scaly face mites. I was able to scrape the beak and pieces flaked off. Underneath it is bloody but not anywhere near as bad as the pictures above. I will order ivermectin in the morning and have it shipped overnight. Thanks for all your comments.
JohnBoy

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:14 pm

Wow - I never would have attributed it to Scaley Face Mites. If you can post updated pics - that may be helpful to any of us that may face that in the future. Many thanks for posting this and good luck with full recovery of your finch.

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:43 pm

Hi everyone, and thanks for your concern. After I removed what I could I applied colloidal silver to the open sore areas. The bird has been the most active since I did this and is eating right now extremely well. His eyes appear clearer. I have no explanation for the big improvement. Unless my intervention has helped untill I get the iverbectin. Ive attached 2 pics I took moments ago.

Finch Fry · Post by **Finch Fry** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:03 pm

WOW. That is unreal!!!

I am so happy that your finch is doing much better. Please, as stated before, send that picture in to the forum people ( i think its crystal) and have her put them in the FIC. That is a picture I think many would benefit from seeing and being able to help them identify issues in the future.

Keep us posted on this guys progress!

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:19 pm

Big difference! Congrats!! I hope it continues to improve.

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:31 pm

Well the bird is doing much better today! Untill the Ivermectin comes in I have been treating the mites with pure diatomaceous earth. It kills the mites by physical action rather than chemical. So far it appears to be working. I took this pic of the bird in the food dish moments ago. He is so active today I had trouble getting a pic. I will post a better pic of the beak area while I catch him sleeping.
Also, when I receive the ivermectin, should I treat all my birds or just the female and stars that were in the cage with him.

Brette · Post by **Brette** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:48 pm

He looks a lot happier. Pretty bird by the way. Apparently the same mite can affect their feet and legs so if you see any crustiness in those spots on any of your birds, it's most probably the same thing. As for treating the entire flock, I will leave that up to people who breed and have mass quantities of birds to answer that.

Personally, i would do it. I wonder if you should give your aviary a bit of a scrub-down too in case the mites are able to live without a host somewhere. I have no clue how to control pests in a large aviary.

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