Red Cheek Cordon Bleu parenting/color question

[Sally]

I have not seen BBCB in my area, either. I have seen them on a few brokers lists, they were more expensive than the BCCB and the RCCB, but then they came down in price. However, I haven't seen so many listed lately.

[CandoAviary]

We have very few shows around this area. One in Tallahasse and one in Pensacola. I am 9 hours drive to Orlando. I guess that is the big show you are talking about. ( 9 hours is a long drive for me ...unless I am really looking to get away) If I need new bloodlines for the birds I breed I usually have them flown in from other breeders who have the same interest as mine.
So I don't see too many of anything at shows/fairs. I do however see them at petsmart occaisionally. all of the types of CBs. I think Mike that use to be on this site alot bought his BBCB at petsmart, along with the RC and BC. At one of the shows in Tallahasse there was a guy selling RC and BC out of the same cage. Someone asked him why some had red marks and some didn't. He said that the others were females Then they asked him why some had brown on their heads and he said that they were young and had not gotten thier colors yet He was a broker who probably got this cage full of CB's at a good price and knew he could make a buck but obviously he didn't know anything about them. And many of the buyers just didn't know any better. Many brokers do not know the breeders practices or the specs/info of thier birds. But they do know how to make a sale I have heard brokers say that they are getting thier birds from Canada. Most buyers don't consider the quarentine/health certificates and cost/effort it takes to get these birds across the boarder.Birds that come from Canada cost more. Most all the birds that are sold at the Fl shows come from S. Florida or Bird Express, Singing Wings, Or other large US importer. You can buy gouldians in S. FL for $35. Just google the Miami bird classifieds and ee the deals on finches. Why would a broker spend more than nescesary and cut into thier profits? I am sorry but I think Bird brokers are about as ethical and honest as used car salesmen I am not saying that they don't get some quality of birds but most serious bird breeders who keep genetically pure and accurate records do not sell to brokers, they sell them themselves. Like most of the breeders on this forum. The pet/ hobby breeder will usually sell to pet stores or local brokers for $ or trade...so sometimes you do run across a nice bird but unfortunately no info/history about the bird Just oh yeah, comes from a nice breeder with healthy, seperated birds??? I don't think any breeder intentionally would purposely cross breed CBs, or any other finch for that matter, but I think there are a lot of crossbreeds out there.
In the past when I lived in GA and went to shows and worked at the pet shop I realized that many people didn't even realize the difference. Even now many people will end up with a RC male and BC female. Unless you are educated in the difference then it is really difficult to tell. Also hybrids between 2 of the subspecies can make it even more difficult.
Maybe I am just jaded for being in the industry and seeing too much. If I wasn't such an animal lover I too would order a bunch of birds and sell, sell, sell and make a dandy living. It is a big money industry...though you have to work the circuit and that means on the road from one show to the next and back again....no thanks.
Boy... I don't know where that rampage came from...... oh yeah, I got to thinking about that awful bird broker that lead those buyers astray...When I tried to give him the benifit of the doubt and politely tried to explain the difference in the 2 species he had.... well he told me to @*&^$% and to move on so I would not hurt business. That man had at least 50 canaries, 30 goldbreast, 50 CB, 50 gouldians, 50 owls and others and he was selling them cheap and like hot cakes...................................... I get frustrated because these birds are treated only like commodities.

[cindy]

Oh my Candace, that man selling at the show was not ethical at all. I belong to the Avian Society years ago while living in Ft. Myers. We would put on big bird shows, I became very involved in the shows and got to know what breeders coming in could be trusted to be truthful, selling good quality birds and were fair with price.

Year after year one breeder would show up with birds that became ill or were ill but not showing signs until they were in their new home. They had cages and cages of finches canaries, parakeets. They did have the Pekins I had been looking for but they were so stressed in their to tiny of a cage. As much as I wanted them I passed on the purchase. I have not seen them anywhere since. If I had purchased the pekins they would have either died or required medical care. It was pitifull.

I still see this breeder from time to time at the area shows.

The breeders I deal with has been a bird breeder for a very long time, very old world. He keeps the different cordon bleus separate. His wife is very delightful and most helpful. You can tell she loves the birds. She sat for 30 minutes with us, watching and catching and sexing just the right birds. They knew I wanted owls and saved me two pairs. Very nice people.

I am nervous about having birds shipped in, there are so many different things that may or may not go wrong. The birds could leave the breeder in perfect shape, The box could be dropped, handled wrong in transport, left in an area that is to cold or hot so by the time they get to me they could be hurt, sick or worse. I do take in account the good experiences others have had and the quality of the birds they receive, I just haven't gotten brave enough yet.

When we moved to NJ from Florida I was on a flight with my brother, we were bringing our cat and 2 dogs with us and meeting my parents and sister at the airport after they took an earlier flight. Our cat and dogs were loaded onto the plane in travel crates and were suppose to be brought from the tarmac to us personally, my sheltie and cat were brought to us directly but our little toy poodle's crate was no where in sight, that was until I noticed his crate coming up the incline before being dropped to the baggage carousel.

Because of the shape and weight of the crate it slid down the incline and was shot across in the air hitting the wall. Luckily the dog was alright just really shook up, the airline apologized up and down but because of human error it almost cost him possible injury or his life. So yes unforseeable things can happen.

Considering the pros and cons of shipping If there ever is a species I just can't get here or I am looking for I may consider it. For right now, I am very content with the birds I have.

By the way my owls came from Canada. My breeder really wanted several pairs for himself. Once he picked his pairs from the group of owls he bought (he had to sex them), he had some left to sell and saved me 2 pairs. I don't regret purchasing them even if they came from Canada. (the permits were very expensive but he did not sell us owls at terribly high price, he stuck to the price they were going for in the area) I am just thrilled they are here and I am giving them a good home. If they produce I don't know if I could sell their chicks...they are to sweet.

[CandoAviary]

That is the best way to buy birds I think. Unfortunately there are not alot of good bird breeders that I have found in my area. There were 2 different individuals that I gouldian shopped with. One lead me to believe that they bred all of thier gouldians. I had contacted a breeder in S. Florida and he gave as a referrance the person that made this "breeders" claim. Said they had just bought 35 gouldians and had them shipped Well was I bamboozled. So the previopus 2 goulds I bought...well who knows if what they told me about them is true or not???
The other was honest about having to ship females up due to a lack. Also said they had so many that I bought males too. I asked which were her homebred ones (they were all colored banded) and she said...I don't know. Earlier at a spring show I had bought 2 females from her and was given a great spill of accurate breeding and record keeping....I guess a lot can change in 6 months???? I contacted the S. Fl fellow and sure enough he had sold her gouldians also. So they were both selling at the same fair and selling the same bloodlines... both acting like they had bred them
Just haven't had much luck with honest finchers....
That was the main reason for me to join this forum. To meet for future purchase other honest, concientous, record keeping breeders

[cindy]

When I first became interested in breeding bourkes I answered an ad about a female normal. I went and looked at her she seemd ok, I was so excited just to get one and rather new to the species. After about a day I noticed she was kind of slow and lazy.

I took a look at her and she seemed tired, not right. Upon examining her further I noticed that she had two bands on, one that was dated to make her look as though she was 2 the other the breeder must have forgotten to take off made her 7 yrs old (way to ld to breed). That woman tried to pass her off as young but really was selling a bird that probably could not produce any longer. Poor bird.

I called the breeder back returned the bird for my money and reported her to our club. (she was a member) Talk about trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes.

It worked out, later that week I came across a beautiful pair of very young rosey bourkes and a pair of scarlet chested keet that the man sold to me very inexpensively (he was moving and wanted a good home for them)...both pairs produced beautiful babies for me.

[Sally]

Candace, I so agree with you. There are people out there who claim to be breeders who are buying them in bulk and then passing them off as their own. There are also, I'm sure, breeders who have just one breeding pair and so they are selling siblings and not telling the buyers.

Cordon Bleus are especially hard, because the hens look so much alike. People who are in it only for the money are not going to care whether they are selling you an RCCB or a BCCB, they will say whatever they think they need to to make the sale. This is one of my pet peeves, as I think it is so important to keep the bloodlines pure, so that in the future, we will still have three distinct species of Cordon Bleus, instead of one generic one. I have learned when selling RCCB or BCCB at the mart to ask a lot of questions of the buyers--it sometimes turns out that they have a BCCB that they want a mate for, and I tell them that all I have are RCCB, and they shouldn't mix the two. And I have had them thank me for being honest--I could have just sold them a bird, if I didn't have any morals at all!

When I first started buying finches, I didn't know enough to ask the right questions. For the most part, I think I got lucky and dealt with some good people. I also used to buy finches off craigslist, and I won't do that any more unless I know the person who is selling. Again, I have been very lucky on those purchases.

For those forum members who go to bird marts, be sure and ask a lot of questions. Good breeders or vendors are happy to answer your questions. If they don't know anything about the birds, walk away! If the males and females look alike (monomorphic), be very careful--with some breeders, if you say you want an unrelated pair, they will come up with an unrelated pair in order to make a sale, whether the birds are truly unrelated or not. Some will also sell you birds that are unsexed and claim they can tell just by looking. Most monomorphic species are extremely difficult to tell apart--a few breeders with years of experience get a feel for it, but many people have been sold m/m or f/f pairs.

Isn't it a shame that the almighty dollar has to override ethics. I don't have any problem with people making money with their birds, as long as they are honest and ethical.

[cindy]

I very much respect the breeders I got my cordon bleus from, they keep the bccb and rccb separate. The wife is very knowledgeable about her finches. The husband has always been dead on about sexing the birds that are difficult to tell male from female.

I am very secure in purchasing birds from them.

[solo_birdlover]

The Cordons indeed are some of the most beautiful birds imo. And though their colors aren't the brightest, and neither color by itself(light blue or brown) is the most beautiful on a bird, I find the combination of those two colors on the bird and the red beak is what makes these birds so beautiful and exotic. I'm not sure but I can't remember ever seeing any other birds with this combination in nature. But on top of that, I think they have the cutest faces out of all finches. I just bought a pair a couple of days ago finally. They're really attractive birds.

Btw, what do you use for their main diet (seeds) ? I gave them regular small finch mixed seeds but they don't seem to be happy with it. They only eat a couple of seeds and they start tossing the rest around as if they're looking for something else. They barely eat anything and they keep going back and forth to the feeders but like I said they don't eat much at all, which is making me concerned.

[cindy]

Congratulations on your Cordon Bleus!

Mine are fairly new, I do offer them dry eggfood with Ground Roudybush in a separate eggcup. I also put about a tsp of it on top of their food (seed). I also offer greens like kale, romaine, parsley, carrots, apples (without the skin) chopped in the food processor.

I tried dried insects and canned mealies, they did not go for them, but they were still settling in. I will try live mealies this week to see if they will take to the, my owls love them.

I also offer a cup of shaved cuttlebone, mineral block, and oyster shell.

[solo_birdlover]

Thank you. I was wondering what kind of seed mix you feed them, like regular small finch seeds or something else. I tried to give mine boiled eggs but they didn't bother to even try it. Same thing with the veggies.

[monotwine]

LOL I have to have a laugh. Here I am trying to think how I am going to get my birds to eat mealies (corn on the cob in SA)! Click I finally figure out you talking about Meal worms.
Just goes to show what the english language does.

By the by - my BC and RCCB both love live food. I have a dirt floor aviary and they even dig out earthworms / grubs to eat all by themselves. New birds when introduced take a little time to know what the meal worms are if they were not fed it before, but once they get a taste they hog the plate!
Mine get a variety of mixed seed which I make up myself according to the season. I find they mostly eat the millets and red manna seeds. Ignoring much of the other stuff like linseed, rape, niger and canary seed although I still offer these in smaller amounts, incase.
Mine love commercial egg food which I feed moistened till soft and crumbly.

[cindy]

I noticed all my birds are selective about the seeds they eat. They pretty much go for millet, and the small red/tan seeds that I assume are the same as you are talking about. I have a good quanity of mixed seeds that I need to use up. the next time I order or go to the feed store I am going to get bags of specific seeds and mix as I used to do years ago. There is some waste at the end of the day with the seed they (all my finches) don't eat.

I offer the dry egg and ground Roudybush in an egg cup and leave it out until nearly gone. I do change it out if soiled in. I have offered boiled egg mashed and found they are not fond of the store bought but like the ones my husband brings home from his sentinel chickens. Sentinel eggs have a thinner shell, yolk is bigger, less whites.

Both the RCCB and Shaftails have only been with us for 8 days. The shaftails settled in within days, found the nest box yesterday, slept in it last night and where mating at 6:30 this morning as I was feeding the dogs. They are a tad loud with excitement right now. This surprised me since they are so new, they are a loving couple and very bonded already.

The cordons are settling down and aren't to flighty, I am going to introduce live mealworms today or tomorrow.

I have one pair of owls that are actively courting and building, the other pair had been doing that and female is going in and out of the nest, staying in for longer periods of time.