Opinions Please :)

[GOULDYGIRL]

Hey all,

I have a situation over here I'd like opinions on.

When my pair started on thier second clutch. I decided to move the first two babies on their own.

I have 2 5ft flights one on top of each other and a 4ft flight, and a 30x18 which houses my Goldbreast pair.

On the bottom half of the 5ft flight, I have my breeding pair. The top housed my 2 adult gouldian males and my glouster canary.

my 4ft flight housed my OH young gouldian hen and 2 society finches.

I decided to move my first babies to the top 5ft flight along with my OH hen. At the time I couldn't sex them. Now I know they are both males and my OH hen has started dropping eggs this week. 2 that I've found so far. She's been coming into breeding condition for a few months now, her beak is very black but I hadn't planned to breed her yet. She's only going to be 9mos this month.

Anyway, I know hen's drop eggs, even without males present. My plan is to keep the sexes separate when not breeding. I don't know if the young babies are triggering her or it's just a coincidence since she's at that age now.

I had planned to move Daisy the mother of these 2 clutches, up top with my OH hen, once she weans this last clutch. I only know for sure that the first two babies are male, I'm not sure what the sexes are of the 2nd clutch. I'm assuming my pastel and maybe silver are males, I'm pretty sure of that, but don't know about the other two.

Long story short. Should I move the 2 boys down with the parents and their 2nd clutch and leave the OH hen by herself, or leave things for now and wait till I move Daisy? I hate when the hens start laying eggs when they are not breeding, but I guess it's something they need to do. I guess I would have felt better if she was dropping them by herself, so I know it wasn't any males triggering her?

I made this so long and complicated. I hope you guys understand, lol!

Renee

[CandoAviary]

I have never had a hen drop eggs without a male present. I guess this doesn't mean they won't...just have never experienced that. I seperate all the young by their sex...boys in one cage, girls in another. They will attempt to breed too young...also they tend to bond to a future mates while young... if clutches are kept together the young hen could easily bond with her brother and later this bond must be broken and forced to bond with a different male.(equalling stress) Sometimes not so successful. Hens that are allowed to pick their mates and visa versa tend to be better parents. (of course if you have one female in a cage and then add one male..... normally they will pick each other ...thinking that this their choice as long as they cannot see other goulds)
My personal opinion from observation is when birds are kept too long as juvies in a grow out cage they form bonds very early on. I practice now seperating the sexes as soon as I can identify the girls from the boys. Later the pairs that I decide to go together seem to form a good bond. I also watch the behaivors of the females when the cages are brought together. Many times you will see a hen cling to the side of the bars in the direction of the cage that the males she desires is in.( I usually keep the females several to a cage, the males one to a 24" cage. I will place several of the males(in their cgaes) that I pick around a selected female that I have picked out and put in a 24' cage. I love watching the boys court her and watch her pick which one.... It is fine with me for her to have the choice since I gathered the males that I would approve of ) I have seen the male from his cage court her... she sits staring and gazing at him. I know this will become a quick bonded pair. Soon her beak will become dark and breeding will begin...I have gouldians breeding at different times throughout the year. I think the sex drive has more to do with the age, conditioning, and treatment of the birds than some date on a calendar. The females that are not the boys cages show none of these behaviors even though they may be the same age. Never do I find dropped eggs.
So I am inclined to believe that the males you place in with your hen has everything to do with her dropping eggs. Find that girl a mature male mate and let her have some chickies (I don't recall if she had been bred before ) If she has bred recently..... you may have to just keep her with other girls for company.

Oops...I just reread and see she is only 9 months old...oversite on my part. I would definatly keep her with females only. No need in her producing eggs that would probably be infertile due to the young males... though sometimes once those females get primed and ready it is hard to shut them down. I would not be feeding her the high protein/fat diet that the young moulting boys are getting either. This too brings them into breeding mode

[GOULDYGIRL]

So I am inclined to believe that the males you place in with your hen has everything to do with her dropping eggs. Find that girl a mature male mate and let her have some chickies (I don't recall if she had been bred before ) If she has bred recently..... you may have to just keep her with other girls for company.

Oops...I just reread and see she is only 9 months old...oversite on my part. I would definatly keep her with females only. No need in her producing eggs that would probably be infertile due to the young males... though sometimes once those females get primed and ready it is hard to shut them down. I would not be feeding her the high protein/fat diet that the young moulting boys are getting either. This too brings them into breeding mode

Ugh, I too now strongly believe in keeping the sexes separate and that is my plan. At the time that I put her in with my 2 chicks, I didn't know their sex. I didn't want to put the 2 babies with my older male gouldians and I needed to keep her from them as well and figured for the time being it would be safe to put her with the 2 babies till I knew what they are.

I have my 2 older gouldian males with my societies, so either I have to move her back with the societies and put my two older males with the younger ones, or move my two babies older to the bachelor pad. When my other hen Daisy is done weaning her babies I was going to move her with the other hen. That's what's hard. I have enough space just more males then hens at this time. Have to decide. I have no plans on breeding her or the space at this point. One breeding at a time and my first pair isn't finished yet, and she's still a bit too young.

Thanks,
Renee

[GOULDYGIRL]

Another reason I moved my hen with the two babies is because they were very young when I moved them. My pair had started a clutch when they were weaned but still in with the parents. I was warned not to move the young babies with adult males at the time. They are older now, and now confirmed males so I guess they can handle being with the older boys now

Renee

[GOULDYGIRL]

Ugh, they ruined my plans now. I'm not sure who to move where. I wanted to keep the babies in the top flight because it's larger and I like the space for them to grow out in. My 4ft is ok, but not the same. I was hoping to move the boys with Dad when the other babies finished weaning and move Mom up top with my other hen. I hate having to rearrange and move them. SIGH!! Can't they just leave the babies alone!!!! LOL! Geez, the boys are only 3mos and already have to worry.

Sigh.. just venting.

Renee

[GOULDYGIRL]

I just moved my 2 older babies back with the parents and younger babies. Think this is ok?? I didn't know where to put them. I wanted to keep them in the larger flights so that had more space, and I wasn't comfortable putting them with my 2 older male gouldians and 2 societies in the 4ft. Now my OH hen is by herself in a 5ft flight till I move mother Daisy with her in a week or so. She's not very happy but I don't know who else to put with her right now. I have my Glouster and goldbreasts in another cage.


Renee

[CandoAviary]

Renee,
I wish you had gotten some more suggestions...I think some are getting leary of offering advice I think that is what the forum is for... others ideas and opinions sometimes shed helpful advice
I think what you have done is good. I would of probably just removed the hen to a small cage for a short spell but I know you don't have the space. She won't be too lonely as she can hear the other birds. Can she see any others? A week is not long for her to chill.
If the new young are out and Dad is feeding then you may be able to move her earlier...also will help keep her from laying more eggs since she is still with her mate.
Has the other hen dropped any more eggs?
Are the parents fine with the older babies back? Watch that Dad does not try to protect the new youngsters from the older youngsters. Birds don't really recognize their offsprings. Once the young males become mature the Dads simply see tham as competition. Dad may view these 2 new males as a threat to his children. (even though they are all his kids...he may have disassociated them since they had 'moved on'. So watch and make sure he is not chasing them from the food dish.... A common territorial behaviour.

[GOULDYGIRL]

Renee,
I wish you had gotten some more suggestions...I think some are getting leary of offering advice I think that is what the forum is for... others ideas and opinions sometimes shed helpful advice

Hi Candace, I wish I did too. Opinions do help sometimes, or ideas that I might not have thought of, or just assurance. I guess I must have an odd situation going on, it's not a bad or emergency thankfully ;)

Anyway, I guess this just caught me off guard. I had planned to do some rearranging and move the 2 older boys with the dad once the 2nd batch was weaned and then move the mother up with my other hen. I just didn't plan to do it so soon and now I don't want to move the mom yet because I think she still needs to be with her babies another week.

Anyway, I put the older siblings back and all seems ok. The parents don't seem to mind at all and are going about their normal business taking care of the babies, etc.

I just feel bad for my hen who's alone now and has been calling and making a racket all day. Like I said, it's not the space, I'm worried about. I have a 4ft flight with my 2 adult male gouldians and 2 societies and another cage with goldbreasts and my canary, and the hen all by herself in a 5ft flight.

I had to move them today, I saw a 3rd egg on the floor of the cage so I just wanted to get the males away from her, sigh... I always seem to have these problems.

Thanks Candace,
Renee

[CandoAviary]

Renee,
Be thankful for the problem of hens that want to produce..... many have the problem of gouldians not wanting to breed I am glad that you are waiting until she is a little older before breeding
I am sure everything will work out. The hen is young and has a good diet and plenty of calcium so a few eggs won't hurt her.
I know how it is to worry though. I am always trying to do what is best for my keeps and then second guessing myself. I think when you really care about your birds you always will

[GOULDYGIRL]

I had everything planned and the way I wanted it right now. I hate to put undo stress on myself and the birds. I also want to keep the babies in the larger flights, so it didn't leave me much options. I figured putting them back with their parents and sibs rather then with 2 older strange males and societies was the best choice for now. Oh well, will see if I decide to move anyone with my lonely hen now, or she'll be alone for a week I guess.

Even if she was old enough to breed now, I really need to be choosy and space out my breedings. I can't just churn them out for the heck of it, and I'm still on a high with my first two breedings at this time.

Thanks again,
Renee

[CandoAviary]

Yes, I agree. You should never 'churn' them out. Glad you have given that some thought.
I guess all depending on your situation. I usually have 1 to 2 clutches per pair....unless they are exceptional chicks...then I may go for a 3rd if the parents are in great shape. Many are 2 years old and still haven't and probably won't be bred by me. They just don't have the size, color , conformation that I am working towards. I am sure I will get even pickier as time goes on. I just want to breed my desired lines. Anyone can buy a show quality bird... but my enjoyment will be to breed one These unbred will be sold at the fair. I am glad I have the room to retain the chicks until they are 1 to 2 years old though.... that way you can see what you are producing. I am sure when I do sell they will sell. I get request from my website all the time. If they don't...well... I will build a giant aviary for them all
I called a lady today that had an ad in the paper selling some handfed baby macaws. She is about 1 hour from me and has had and bred just about every bird know. Really informative lady we talked for 1.5 hours . She talked of organizing a bird club around this area. That would be sooo exciting. She is putting the word out to her bird people of my gouldians. I love passionate bird friends

[GOULDYGIRL]

It's a lot of fun to breed and I wish I could continue on a regular basis but it's just not realistic right now. Firstly I don't have the space, and I dont' see a market for them, at least around here. I would never ship. Also, it's very expensive to keep what I have maintained, at least for me. What I have now is about all I can handle.

I wish I knew more people in my area that were interested in the birds. So far, I haven't met any, well at least any that I would consider trading or selling to at this time.

You guys are the only ones I know that share my interest

Renee

[GOULDYGIRL]

I took this pic earlier. I took a lot more but my camera is not well

Anyway, This is the whole family together. The older brothers are in the front. Sky my blue is next to dad and Jet is on the bottom. Mom is in the back, hard to see.

[lovemyfinch]

They do make a beautiful family Renee. Sorry for not responding earlier, but I really didn't have any answers to help you.

[CandoAviary]

You have beautiful goulds. I know what you mean about lack of finch people to visit with. I met one.... my word..he turned out to be nothing but BS. Type that adopted peoples birds with the story of ..... I take care of unwanted birds, rescue and find them perfect homes....next day you see them listed on the bird boards

That is why I was so thrilled to talk with that very knowledgable, conscientous lady today. She asked me 20 questions of what I knew about birds before she even told me about her young scarlets. She raises african grey, amazon parrots, etc. I thought this was a cool idea. She takes those giant out of date satelite dishes and uses them for domed roofs on a concrete slab outdoor aviary. She sets large timbers in the slab then mounts the inverted dish to the post. Covers with wire from the inside so the big gnawing birds can't destroy the post. Ingenious, I thought.