Orange Breasted pair?

[tonysr09]

OK why isn't my url showing up properly? And I see the addiction. I like to know a little, at least, how things work. I should tell you years ago I did raise parakeets. I don't know how far this is going to go, we'll see.


Tony

[Nagdabit]

Thanks for the link Tony. Very interesting reading. Garrie certainly knows his Zebras, that's for sure. I have heard of even experienced breeders having difficulties differentiating between Fawn Cheek and FF's before. That's why I recommended posting pics on the Yahoo forum. If anybody would be able to pick up the subtle differences, it would be those guys (and gals).

Certainly sounds as though you've been bitten by the finch bug. With all of the different mutations that Zebras have, you could be in for a long "sickness"

[CandoAviary]

Best of luck with your pair. I hope you do have pure FF and not the fawn cheeked/ florida fancy cross.... hey but either way..... it's great.
I have nothing but mutts...always an experiment with mutations here... oh how those show people would cringe

[tonysr09]

Thought I'd give a little update. As I mentioned in an earlier post I put a nest in their cage. This was to see if they were actually a pair. There has been a lot of activity. Both have been going in and out both contributing material to the nest. The nest was put in on Tuesday so it's only been a few days. I have checked today and there are no eggs at this time. I have not witnessed any mating myself but they seem to be going in together more frequently. I only have the one larger cage which is 30" wide X 18" deep X 36" tall. When and if there are chicks will this be big enough for the family if there are 3 or 4 chicks? I know I'm getting ahead of myself but no harm in asking. Being a Fawn or FF hen doesn't matter the male being FF at least removes the risk of blind chicks, which I wouldn't like to happen. Will keep you updated, fingers crossed, and hoping for eggs soon.


Tony

[CandoAviary]

Yes this cage would be large enough. Though once the chicks are nature they will breed with brother /sister, dad /daughter, etc. So caution there Hope you end up with a pair

[tonysr09]

Plan to pull the nest before another clutch. Now that you mention it are there any rules, precautions concerning inbreeding? Haven't really run across the subject in the readings I've done so far.
Also is there a standard size, dimension wise, of nests that zebs lean toward?


Tony

[tonysr09]

Thanks for the link Tony. Very interesting reading. Garrie certainly knows his Zebras, that's for sure. I have heard of even experienced breeders having difficulties differentiating between Fawn Cheek and FF's before. That's why I recommended posting pics on the Yahoo forum. If anybody would be able to pick up the subtle differences, it would be those guys (and gals).

Certainly sounds as though you've been bitten by the finch bug. With all of the different mutations that Zebras have, you could be in for a long "sickness"

Well I did as you suggested and got a reply a while ago. I'm totally confused. Not that I know better than Garrie, but feel disheartened that the breeder I bought them would less than upfront. Now should I continue my attempt to breed this pair or not to see what happens if anything. Guess I'll let all this sink in and go from there. Keep you all updated.



Reply


Garrie_Landry to me
show details 11:47 PM (43 minutes ago)
they are fawn cheek zebra finches a dominant mutation and should always be breed to a non fawn cheek bird, either grey or fawn as a mate.

reason for not breedinb FC X FC is that a substantial risk of getting blind offspring occurs
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Tony

[AndreasLon]

Hey Tony,

First of all congratulations. Most of us have started with Zebra finches albeit mine were not as beautiful as yours, my female in particular had been put in a cage with lots of males by the incompetent guys at the pet shop, a nest and no nesting material, so the males took it in turn to pluck her feathers and line the nest with it. By the time I rescued her she looked horrible. She didn’t care though, she knew she was beautiful on the inside and my male certainly seemed to agree with her…within 5 minutes of being in the same cage he started displaying to her.

So anyway, what I want to say with this little write-up is that males and females sing very differently. It’s very difficult to describe how a bird sounds but I would describe the sound Zebras make as a bip-bip-bip. They both make this sound when going about their business. A male will often properly sing, and when he does so he really focusses on the task: he sits high on a perch, puffs up the feathers on his head and chest and really goes for it. It’s a very incessant sound and a lot more complex that the usual bip-bip-bip, and you can tell that he’s working hard on it as it won’t really jump around or fly while singing. I recall that my sister who is not too keen on birds asked me about what was that horrible noise coming from the aviary. I explained it was my male Zebra displaying to the female. After a few days my sister started wishing the female wasn’t so bl***y difficult and just…I’m not sure I am allowed to finish this sentence on here!

As you definitely have at least one male you should have witnessed this type of behaviour. If they both do it they are two males.

If anything else fails, if you find that in the next 2-3 months you have no eggs then they are males.

Either way don’t be disappointed if they turn out to be 2 males and if I were you I wouldn’t worry too much about the genetics of Zebras. At this stage I would just enjoy their cheeky and really appealing behaviour (albeit not to my sister) and if it turns out that you need to get two females, get yourself two pretty ones and you get yourself a little happy group of these birds. Most birds need to be kept as single or 3+ pairs but I think Zebras will be ok with two couples in the same cage.

Then of course you’ll have babies and you’ll be thinking about a bigger home and you’ll end up with aviaries and birdrooms like most of us.

Andreas

[Nagdabit]

Hey Tony

Actually I saw your post on the Yahoo forum. Sorry to hear that you're disappointed, but I wouldn't necessarily think that the breeder was being deceptive with you. As you brought out in the link you posted from Garrie, without properly training your eye to look for the subtle differences between the two mutations, they can be very easily confused. A little while ago on that very forum someone posted pics of their "Florida Fancy" and a number of those "experts" didn't even notice otherwise. A good period of time passed until someone who specialized in Fawn Cheeks pointed out the erroneous identification.

If nothing else you learned an important lesson, unfortunately you can't always take the so called experts at their word. Whether it be intentional or most likely in this case accidental, there are just too many intangibles to consider. The one bright point from all this is that you really seem to have a strong interest in properly educating yourself about your birds, and that will be of tremendous value to you and them in the long run. Continue to nurture that that hunger, don't sell yourself short, and trust your instincts and before you know it, people will be asking you for for your advice.

While you're deliberating what you want to do, if you don't want to add another male and female for your current ones to breed with, then perhaps someone will trade you one? If we lived closer, I'd certainly offer you one or two of ours. Ever get to central PA?

[tonysr09]

Hi Nagdabit
Thank you for the offer. I'm in Woodrige, Il. (west of Chicago). Not so much disappointed as a bit bewildered. This breeder has been at it for 50 years and insists they are FF. Have asked Garrie to consider this in a post because I want to believe the breeder and Garrie's site helped lead me to think they are. A sfFF light male and FF hen. But they also look like FC finches.

Jusr got another email from Garrie.
n Dec 7, 2009, at 6:52 PM, Tony Paul Sienkowski Sr wrote:



Could the Labeo1950 photos be a form of FF maybe F silvers?

NO THEY ARE NOT FS


The breeder I bought them from insists they are FF.

HE IS DEAD WRONG AND THERE IS NO CHANCE THEY ARE FLORIDA FANCY

NOTICe how the female has a grey tear drop mark, white head an back, cream cheeks
FF hens never have tear drop marks, nor such rich color in the cheeks

the males markings are even more pronounced. His breast bar is grey if he was a FS his body would be the same color as the breast bar, it is not, his head is white, his wings and back are muddy white and buff mixed, he also has a tear drop, absolutely no doubt they are both Fawn Cheek zebras


Tony

[tonysr09]

I have a few emails from the yahoo list that agree that they are indeed a FC pair.

I will be removing the nest box don't want to see blind chicks come into the world.

Will contemplate getting proper mates for a try at breeding. And continue to learn about these little buggers.

I thank you all for your support and input. Thanks also to Garrie L. and those of the Yahoo list.

Will keep in touch.


Tony

[CandoAviary]

Tony......
Sometimes these mutations can make you go insane. From your first picture I could not see the males back and did think it was a siver florida fancy. But in the other pictures as Garrie pointed out you can see the white and buff. And the females with cheek patches I do agree is a fawn cheek. They are usually costly though as I mentioned earlier. Then when you had stated the seller told you to ask around to see what a good deal you got I figured...ahhhh, it is a fawn cheeked female. Seems like this breeder of 50 years and off winning with FF while his daughter was selling...well.... frustrating. I would like to think it was a mistake, but why introduce someone to the hobby this way. I would question if this seller actually bred those birds. If you breed...you know what you have. If you buy a bunch from someone else to flip and make a buck then it may be quite possible this seller did not know what he had. Seems like the likely scenario to me. Seems like he would say, there was a mix up instead of insisting that they are FF.....
like I said,,,,frustrating. Sorry for all your troubles on this one. I sure hope it does not turn you off to these wonderful little birds...it is not their fault. Just realize, many people talk the talk, only some actually back it up. Maybe this breeder would swap out one of your birds for a compatable partner. If he some how could get it through his head that it is a fawn cheeked seems he would want to trade without hesitation......FF are usually cheaper. Best of luck. Also I must give you much admiration to question and research what you had before breeding you have probably saved yourself from much heartache down the road. Sure am glad you posted those first pictures here

[tonysr09]

Trying to find out what kind of Zebs they were proved to be more than I bargained for. And I'll admit it got a bit frustrating. What made it harder was that I didn't know who I was dealing with. There are those who try to help besides themselves. But didn't expect such a problem with the breeder. Which I'm going to pass off as getting on in years. I'm grateful for everyones help. Please feel free to express your knowledge to me in minute detail without feeling like your lording over. I prefer very specific answers to my questions. Less room for error or speculation on my part.
Already thinking of what mates would be good to go with. BC zebs catching my eye not sure if I should start with a male of femaleas a potential mate to one of the FCs.
By the way I went with Ozzie & Harriet. How many of you don't know what I'm talking about? Will keep in touch.


Tony