Housing/Breeding or a bit of both.

[monotwine]

So I am trying to think up ways I can keep more species of finches (ie like different Parrot finches in one aviary) without necessarily building more aviaries. Although I would prefer that, it is just not an option right now.

So I thought I would try individual cages for special species, WITHIN my birds shelter room/aviary.
I don't like the idea of keeping my birds caged permanently. I like for them to roam free in the outdoor flight, but feel I can control species breeding better if I pair them in seperate cages.
The idea would be to place pairs into a cage with breeding boxes, let them nest then once they are comfy in their area, open the cages allowing them freedom to enter and exit the cage or "breeding area". This would allow them flight/foraging freedom, but restricting them to that cage area should I wish, like when young fledgling exit and parents let them die in the large flight to exposure.

I thought I would ask you lot as most of you have more caged bird experience. I only know large areas and "free" nesting.
I am trying to see if I can control their breeding, WITHOUT controlling them! LOL
Do you think this will work? These are the cages I can get easily.

I have strange birds that actually fight over the one cage I currently have in there for holding young/problem birds.

[CandoAviary]

I would never mix the parrot species in an aviary. They readily crossbreed. I had put 2 male and 3 female red throats in an aviary and witnessed the males taking turns breeding all 3 females
One male was killed.... the hen abandoned that nest..no chicks. I removed her and paired her with a nes mate in a flight cage. no young yet. The other female was removed and laid eggs that were not incubated. The last female had 2 babies. These 2 are hers but the Dad could be pieds or Miami Red's.... so I will not set them up with any of each others offspring. These birds breed in the open and can be breed by any willing male...even gouldians. So I recomend 1 pair to an enclosure. The parrots need more room as they are an active bird. Small cages are not good for them. Flight cages are a must.
You could always takes a side of your aviary and build small flight within. That way you could hose a pair to each flight and still view them from the aviary. Just more feed dishes/waterers to fill.
Also with mixed aviaries with breeding birds there always seem to be aggresion problems, inbreeding problems, crossbreeding problems, and identification of offspring problems.... just to name a few.....
I too would love to get other parrot finches..and I will but they will be kept in a different aviary as the red throats and then only 1 pair per aviary.
I tried the other way and love the idea of the birds freedom of flight. Also the idea of a common waterer/fountain, common feed dishes...... much easier but very unreliable breeding results
So what I do is rotate ny pairs so that they all have a spell in the aviaries. Once they breed the desired clutches I seperate the pairs in flight cages side by side...as I do all the young (single to a cage...the young will breed with their siblings at a very young age)
Then a different pair will have the aviary for a spell. I find this works the best for me. All birds get great flight time. All bird are tracked and gauranteed of their family lines, no fights, no unnecasary deaths, no remorse

[monotwine]

Thanks Cando for the reply. Glad I asked before trying.

I will have to convince the hubby I need extentions. For the sake of genetic purity! LOL

[CandoAviary]

That sounds like a convincing reason to me

[mickp]

have to agree with Candace on this. keep parrotfinch species seperately.
but after saying that they can be housed together in aviaries, ust have to make certain that you have the correct mix of each species in the aviary (no unpartnered birds of either species)

[monotwine]

No extentions soon, so no Forbes. I will just have to wait... Patience is not my best virtue.

However I abhore cross breeding more, so will just get other species.
After watching my Red throated parrot this weekend he is on a short tether already. He is rather an aggressive boy and picks on one of my CB's. Yesterday I saw him try mount a Zebie fledgling!!!! This RTPF testosterone is out of control. Definitely he would try jump any other parrot finch I add to the aviary. If he does not watch out he will be relocating to a friend with flight runs.

[CandoAviary]

My Red throat males are like that too. They will mount anything that is mountable...regarless of species. They will even mount the other male parrot finches
I would like forbes or peales but not until I have even more aviaries will I attempt them. I still find the red Throats the most pleasing to my eye. Plus I love that they are the first to great me. What jovial little birds they are.

[dfcauley]

I think the cages shown are much too small for parrot finches. They tend to become obese and need lots of exercise year round.

I absolutely LOVE having a mixed species aviary. But I only have one pair of each species other than my gouldians and an extra red head parrot finch hen. When my addition is finished I will be getting another parrot finch for my red head and putting it in a different area.
For me cages are not an option. UNLESS it is a bird in quarantine or hospital cage. When you are able to witness the difference in a bird's personality once it is released into an avairy from a cage it is amazing!

I think personally I would be more concerned with zebras breeding away with whoever than I would some of the others.

[CandoAviary]

I too think those cages are too small for parrot finches. I would use larger flight cages.
Not all people can offer large free flying aviaries though. As someone with experience with keeping parrot finches in large 16'x18' floor to ceiling indoor aviaries. Large and small outdoor aviaries, 6' x 2' and 6'x3' floor to ceiling aviaries. Flight cages ranging from 32" x 20" x 60" to 30"x18"x18" cages. I can attest that your bird can be happy and have a great personality in these situations. I do rotate my birds so that they have a change of excercise level, scenary, etc.. amongst my different facilities. However I have never noticed a change in their personalities, health, production, etc. caused by the different housing. Actually I have observed the oppisite, bennificial results. When birds are seperated and allowed to moult and recondition after breeding without the harrassment of their mate/other species they tend to fare better than the birds I keep house together year round. As far as needing excercise, Birds that have room to fly back and forth in a flight cage can obtain needed excercise. It is usually the year round fatty diet that will make them fat. Non breeding and non moulting birds kept in warm conditions should be fed an austere diet for maximum health and longevity of life. I think that if they have a bath, great seasonal foods and the company of other bird (either with in the cage or via a friend in a cage set next to it) they are pretty happy and full of personalities.
So those that keep your birds in a cage, do not be convinced that they are unhappy or lacking personality. I think that it is the owners who are unhappy about seeing them caged. I too love to watch them in the big free flying aviary but have no problems caging them for rest, to stop them breeding, and for recuperation. Just a different opinion I share through my personal observations.

[dfcauley]

Not trying to make anyone feel bad about cages.

I think everyone here knows how I feel about cages, but it doesn't mean that everyone can do the free flight. Sally and I had discussed this at lunch on Saturday and I believe that she also noticed a big difference when she let her's roam.

I just think the more room.... the better!!! That is why I am enlarging. (and so I can get more birds)

[franny]

....So those that keep your birds in a cage, do not be convinced that they are unhappy or lacking personality. I think that it is the owners who are unhappy about seeing them caged. I too love to watch them in the big free flying aviary but have no problems caging them for rest, to stop them breeding, and for recuperation. Just a different opinion I share through my personal observations.

Thanks Candace, I think you make a good point. I wish I could have an aviary, but I'd rather keep a finch in a cage, than not at all... Perhaps selfish, but so be it.

Some people feel that it's too confining to keep cats indoors, but having had indoor cats for many years, I can certainly confirm that they are happy, and healthy, and live longer when kept indoors. And if they've never known the life of a free ranging cat, then they don't "miss" it. They are happy with life as they know it, if they are loved and cared for. I have to believe that my finches are equally "content" in their cage, as that's all they've ever known.
And I know that they eat better food, and will live longer lives than if they were out in the wild.

Freedom is not always what it's cracked up to be, IMO. Though of course the largest cage I can manage is what they'll get I don't think anyone takes any offence though. We'd ALL love to have aviaries if we could!

[CandoAviary]

Franny,
I have had finches (and other types of birds) free fly yet go back to their cages to sleep or come and just sit on the couch by me and watch television and be patted.I have even had birds that just had a perch over a large potted plant on a stand that was like his cage yet without bars.(had water, cuttle, food, etc.) The bird had the entire house to fly in...yet he spent 50% of his time on his special perch, 45% of his time on me...and maybe 5% of his time free flying from me to the perch......one thing for sure...he always would fly to the shower with me.He also would not fly away if I went outside to the mailbox. He never had clipped wings either. I have also had wild birds that I raised and though they could fly miles away would rather follow me into the house and make company with me. Maybe it is just my way with animals in general but I think love, kindness and security goes a lot farther than freedom with animals.

Donna, I didn't think you were trying to make anyone feel bad. Nor was I, just sharing my experience with monotwine about the different housing I use and for the different reasons. And I guess I haven't experience a big change in my birds as you have when they roam or when they are set up to breed or recuperate in flight cages. Just a different opinion and observation than yours... now no need for rolling eyes

[monotwine]

Thanks all for your input.

This was just a passing thought to try go around building, but getting more birds and allowing them the freedom of the flight. I too have that "guilt" feeling of seeing any of my birds in a cage.
I am used to them in a large open environment. I would not permanently house birds in cages as I have the option of aviaries / flights.

I was just noticing my own birds actions recently. I have one cage which is mounted on the wall of my birds shelter. (to put my naughty RTPF into when he needs to "cool off"). I left the cage door open one morning when I let him go and by evening my Bicheno had moved in. They purposely took over the cage and nest which is inside, however they had the freedom of the aviary due to the cage being open.
I thought this was just a fluke, but shoed them out of there. A few weeks later again the door of the cage was open and the parrot finches moved in.

Just got me thinking if they would breed like that within their own "personal space". Each with their own cage to defend instead of defending the whole bird room, which does cause a bit of an issue come roosting time in peak breeding season.

Best option is for me to build a few seperated flights alongside my aviary. Would be the best option for seperate breeding pairs as well as young.
I don't have major set up like some and mostly only keep single pairs of species in a mixed aviary. I don't have many young all at the same time and manage the space within my aviary to accomodate space for young too, until I sell them.

Great to have all your different opinions and thoughts though.
Saved me the effort of finding cages and I can rather put that money towards building flights in the future. SO THANKS!

[CandoAviary]

Many people have told me of similar behaviors of nesting birds. Bird do like to pair up and find a easy to defend, private place to nest.
In the wild thay have LOTS of space but even in our (what we consider large) aviaries are actually quite confining to breeding birds. Especailly if kept with incompatible species or simply overstocked for the space. Even in these larger confines birds can suffer disasterous consquences. Nest being taken over by other birds. Hens being forced to lay eggs in several different nest. Birds attacking and killing chicks, Hens being harassed by too many cocks or constantly driven to breed year round. In the wild the less dominant would simply move on. In captivity they can't so it is up to the keeper to supply a safe haven for them.
I love my mini aviaries 6'x2' or 6'x 3' for this. Safety and Privacy for the breeding pair without worry of crossbreeding/inbreeding. Safety for the chicks from egg to fledgling stag. But this size also affords great excercise room. If you could add small aviary additions off your main aviary that would give you the best of both worlds too. I agree that this would be your best option. I usually like to keep my large aviaries for nonbreeding birds. Preferrably all the same sex. Though I do have a large aviary 16'x18' with 4 pair of red head gouldians. They are breeding but one nest has 1 chick, 1 nest has 2 chicks, and 1 nest has 4 chicks. Found one chick dead on the floor at about 7 days old. several eggs broken in the nest also. These are by far the worst case of nesting I have experienced to date. The 1 pair per breeding cage seems not only to keep the birds less stressed but also more successful at rearing their chicks to adulthood. I guess that's why so many people cage breed, besides the desire to control who is bred with who, and then keep the birds in excercise flights while they are not breeding.
I love the aviary I built with the nest wall but am considering removing the nest so it is not used as a breeding aviary. I think this large space would be better suited for growing out youngsters or as an excercise area for nonbreeding birds.
I am fascinated with the study, genetics, and breeding of the finches these days and this is where I am with the hobby presently. But I know eventually I will not breed anymore.(too time consuming and I have many other interest to pursue.) I will then keep an aviary for just beauty and decoration. I think I will keep only a very few birds in a very large space and quite possibly all males. I think this would be the simplest way to go if you just want a beautiful, colorful aviary to enjoy.

[dfcauley]

Donna, I didn't think you were trying to make anyone feel bad. Nor was I, just sharing my experience with monotwine about the different housing I use and for the different reasons. And I guess I haven't experience a big change in my birds as you have when they roam or when they are set up to breed or recuperate in flight cages. Just a different opinion and observation than yours... now no need for rolling eyes

Sorry.... I thought that was what the icons were for. Our expressions.