breeding silver goulds

[carmena]

Found a fella selling a pair of silver goulds that he has bred together 3 times (he says) he calls them "blue portador"??? Says it's a "unique line" of goulds.
Does any one have any idea what he is talking about? He is asking 80 a bird and will only sell as a pair...so 160. A good price at a fair, but the have bred several times , (per him) so who knows how many times they have actually bred.

Should I ask him if he has a bridge he is selling with those birds.

When I said that I thought you should not breed silvers together, he seemed like he had never heard it before.

Am I imagining things? What color of goulds should you never pair up?

[MLaRue]

You are correct - I wouldn't breed Silver to Silver or Blue to Blue or Silver to Blue. I know some people do it but I prefer not to do it.

If you could see them in person you could look at their bands to see if they tell you their age and see their condition overall. If they are to your liking you could split them up and pair them with birds you already have now.

[CandoAviary]

Good price. Ypu know when I was in Oranldo bird fair and with many phone conversations I have had with Florida southern breeders it seems they all breed blues and silvers together. I also had always heard that it is best not to. Though I have since talked with other breeders and it really all depends on the birds. If they are stong and distant bloodlines they can produce nice birds...I have been told and I have seen thier results. I think the fear of "breeding blues together" comes from when there was not a very large gene pool of blues and silver...also the fact that they use to be considered weaker mutations. These days with good breeding, blues and silvers can be as large, strong, and healthy as normals...... Though this is my first year in breeding this mutation..... I have paired a few blues with blues or silvers but most will be paired with splits or normals (to produce splits). The blue to blue, or blue to silver is an experiment for me personally. I think you can be told much but experience and actually personal results are what my studies are all about. I guess there are many breeders that pair thier birds up differently and for different reasons. I bought 3 blue at the Orlando show..all bred from blue on blue pairings. These are some really large and beautiful birds..... so I have seen that it can be done and done with the results of producing some nice color, vitatlity, and great conformation. Sounds like you seller is like many in that area.
I agree that you can always split them up and pair with others as Misty said. Can't go wrong with that. Don't know about the blue portador but have heard many names in some phone conversations with south FL breeders. Some are aviary names (much like kennel names in the dog world) that links a breed line with a certain aviary.
Not sure if that is the case with this name or not.

[carmena]

What happens?
He sent me a pic of a clutch of these- 2: a silver and a blue baby, close to fledgling age, in the nest. But is 2 a small clutch? I am pretty sure (99%) that he fosters. Is small clutch size a problem you find with breeding silvers to silvers?
what actually happens?

[CandoAviary]

Haven't bred mine yet...just set them up. One pair had eggs and I left the water bottle off for 24 hours and they abandoned the nest 5 fertile eggs that got too chilled and died.
Laid another clutch and the male started twirling... female left the nest once I removed the male to the hospital cage... looked like only one egg was fertile this time and I slipped them under another gouldian that was sitting.
Tiffany recently told me that some of the biggest silvers she had seen were from a blue to silver pairing ..if I recall correctly. The couple I bought my 3 blues from said thier blues produce as well as thier normals................
I think if you inbreed though,any birds, especially with the yellow, blue, and silver mutaions you will get weaker and smaller sized chicks..... I have not gotten many answers on the results of this pairing....most just say... I wouldn't do it but never really say why they would not. Or they say...I do it all the time and have no problems what so ever.... so I am in the dark as much as you are...hence my own experiement.... I will let you know how things turn out

[L in Ontario]

I know people that have bred blues to blues with no problems. I would get the pair if they appear healthy and I would pair them up if they are unreleated. I believe the not pairing of any colour is from the olden days. Good luck and let us know how it goes - whether you get them or not.

[MLaRue]

I know Tiffany or others that are genetic experts can explain in better detail but the main thing is that you are breeding birds that are to close genetically. Meaning the factors that make the Gouldians Blue and Silver are already mutated to make them that and pairing them together is a gamble.

Perhaps genetics is the wrong word but genes is the correct word. Below is something I've kept to refer back to when pairing a blue to a blue or even silver to silver.

"Since you know that blue, "pastel", and silver goulds all have inherited the two mutated alleles that cause the blue body mutation, then it is logical to conclude that those who recommend not breeding blue to blue also would include the "pastel" and silver goulds in that recommendation. (I am simply using the principles of logic argument here and not assuming anything).

I freely admit that I am one of the breeders who does not recommend pairing two "full" blues together. With that said, here is another take on this particular subject of debate ... breeding two "full" blues together limits the genetic diversity of the offspring the birds will produce. I pair my birds to breed for the largest amount of genetic diversity possible. To illustrate:

Blue SF Yellow (a "pastel") x Blue hen will produce Blue and Blue SF Yellow males and Blue and Silver hens

vs.

Blue SF Yellow x Normal-blue hen will produce Normal-blue, Blue, SF Yellow-blue, and Blue SF Yellow males and Normal-blue, Blue, Yellow-blue, and Silver hens.

By simply pairing a "full" blue with a split to blue you may be ensuring your birds produce genetically strong offspring as well as a much larger variety of offspring.

But, if a person wants to concentrate on specifically producing one or two particular types of offspring -- i.e., pastels and silver hens, then pairing two blues would greatly increase the odds of that outcome.

Keep in mind that birds can only pass on the genes they possess to their offspring. And if those genes are not strong, their offspring won't be. Unfortunately, one cannot look at a bird and tell if it's genetically strong or not.

In answer to your white breast question, we routinely pair two white breasted goulds to ensure the production of white breasted offspring and have not experienced any problems in doing so."

[nixity]

Tiffany recently told me that some of the biggest silvers she had seen were from a blue to silver pairing ..if I recall correctly. The couple I bought my 3 blues from said thier blues produce as well as thier normals................
:

They were pastels produced from a Blue Cock x Silver Hen and I wouldn't consider her an experienced or knowledgeable breeder. She was advertising the Pastel blues from that pair as "split for Silver."

And they were large - but after borrowing a blue hen from that line, I cannot get her to breed for me and she is relatively small and IMO not conformationally sound.

I don't think I would take an exception to the rule and take my chances based off of that.
Especially when currently, I am NOT breeding blue x blue and I am still having problems getting my blues to survive through the molt.

Last year I had really good luck with Silvers produced from a DF Yellow/Blue Cock x Silver hen.
I've produced a few blues, a pastel, and some silvers this year - and the only ones to date on the perch are a single silver and two blue hens.
I lost two SF YellowBlue LB Cocks, numerous Blue hens, the Pastel chick, I just lost a Silver fledging, I lost a Silver weanling.. etc etc.

So - being that I am pairing splits together and I can't for the life of me produce viable blues - and I know I have healthy, unrelated birds, (all of my other babies are fairing just fine), I can not at this time really advocate pairing two blues together...

Especially if they are coming from someone selling silvers for $80 a pop - $5 more than what I sell my normals for!!

I'm sorry..
Is it a good price? Yes..
But ask yourself why?
Why are the so cheap?
There is probably a good reason.

It also sounds like he bred them to turn around and sell them. So you probably couldn't breed them until next year anyways :/

[carmena]

Well, I am glad I did not buy them. He sold them though to someone in Orlando that paid to ship them.

My silver male I am going to pair up to a normal female
My silver female is not interested at ALL in breeding
My blue WB male I just paired with a normal WB female.
Since I don't have any splits.

[CandoAviary]

Especially if they are coming from someone selling silvers for $80 a pop - $5 more than what I sell my normals for!!

I'm sorry..
Is it a good price? Yes..
But ask yourself why?
Why are the so cheap?
There is probably a good reason.

Tiffany, I think it is the area that keeps the price so low. Seems there are tons of breeders with a surplus of birds. With so many on the market the price is driven down. Many people in South FL (due to great year round warm weather) offers many to breed birds (of all kinds and tropical fish too) as a business. Some have hundreds of pairs set up. These people stock the brokers who in return sell them at a higher prices. I don't necessarily think a low price means lesser quality. I have seen some high priced poor quality gouldians also I think it all comes down to the breeder and thier practices and desire to produce nice birds..... or just make some money. I have met both kinds

[nixity]

Let me guess - was this the guy?
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/1299960.html

This is the same guy that STOLE my photos and information from my website, and also stole photos from Kim Sasala, a friend of mine, to use as his own.

He also contacted me before he plagiarized from me because all of his birds were sick and dying and he didn't know why.

[carmena]

YES!!!! that's him

I did not see that ad. I found him on craigslist and he did not mention all that stuff.

[CandoAviary]

Buyers beware

[MLaRue]

Let me guess - was this the guy?
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/1299960.html

This is the same guy that STOLE my photos and information from my website, and also stole photos from Kim Sasala, a friend of mine, to use as his own.

He also contacted me before he plagiarized from me because all of his birds were sick and dying and he didn't know why.

Yikes! Does he have a website?

[nixity]

Not that I know of - but you never know.